|1" Carbon Steerer Tubes||heldveld|
Nov 4, 2002 5:43 PM
|Are there any issues with using a 1 1/8" stem with a shim on a 1" carbon steerer tube?|
|don't get a 1" carbon steerer...||merckx56|
Nov 4, 2002 6:55 PM
|I had a Time fork with a 1" carbon steerer and it was a noodle! I used a 1-1/8" stem with a shim w/o probs, but the steerer just wasn't stiff and the bike got sold very shortly thereafter.|
|I am using it now||spookyload|
Nov 4, 2002 7:07 PM
|I have the Ouzo Pro in 1" and it is fine with the 1 1/8 stem. Most stems come with the shim to adapt it down. They work just fine. Mine is the Cinelli Ram and I have also used the ITM Mellinium. Both worked fine on the 1" steerer. The Ouzo carbon steerer is plenty stiff so dont get too concerned about what the other poster said if you have a Reynolds.|
|Same here, no problems. (nm)||Chen2|
Nov 5, 2002 9:11 AM
|I am also using a 1" Ouzo Pro with no problems...||Cima Coppi|
Nov 5, 2002 9:55 AM
|I have it set up on a 59cm frame with a Cinelli Solido stem. The stem is a 1-1/8" with the shim for 1" steerer tubes, and I have 2cm of spacers beneath the stem. I have not had any issues with this setup at all in terms of flexibility with the carbon steerer tube.
Nov 4, 2002 7:16 PM
|It will work fine. A 1" carbon steering tube will not make the fork a "noodle". Just keep the spacers to 2cm or less.|
|re: 1" Carbon Steerer Tubes||Juanmoretime|
Nov 5, 2002 1:59 AM
|I'm currently using an Ouzo pro 1 in with a Cinelli Solido stem 1 & 1/8 with the adapter that came with the stem. I had a 1 and 1/8 before and I cannot tell any differences. The same for a friend of mine and he's using a Columbus Muscle 1" and a Deda stem. As the above poster mentioned his problem with the Look, early Looks were known to be noodly anyway. If you are ridding a very large frame, 61+, I'm ridding a 59, with the 1" you might have some flex. Although I seriously doubt it.|
|No, just make sure the splits line up. Don't like my Look 1"||Paul|
Nov 5, 2002 3:30 AM
|steerer. Sometimes when hitting bumps a certain way, it becomes flexy. But this is true for others. Have the split on the shim line up with the split on the stem. No problem.|
|re: 1" Carbon Steerer Tubes||pmf1|
Nov 5, 2002 5:09 AM
|No, this is perfectly OK to do. My Litespeed has a 1" Look fork with Forgie stem. The stem had a sleeve to allow either 1" (w/ sleeve on) or 1.125" (w/ sleeve off). I've had the bike for almost 3 years now, never a problem. Do you really think 12.5% wider stem steerer will make that big of a difference?
When riding the bike, I see little difference between 1" and 1.125" carbon forks (I have both). I do see a big difference in threadless vs. threaded.
|let me qualify...||merckx56|
Nov 5, 2002 7:49 AM
|my above post. I had a Time Stiletto Featherlight with a 1" carbon steerer. I was using 10mm of spacers and the bike was a Specialized M4 S-works, which rode like a dump truck anyway. With the Cinelli Groove stem and the shim, the steerer tube would flex. Now I'm quite sure the bars and stem had something to do with the flex, but my 1-1/8 Look HSC3 does NOT flex under similar loads. I also weigh 180 and pull on the bars pretty violently when sprinting or jumping across a gap. The bike itself wasn't balanced because the fork was too flexy and the rear end didn't flex at all!
I do think 12.5 percent makes a difference. If I weighed 12.5 percent less, I'd weigh 157.5 (big difference huh?). If I could add 12.5% more speed to my 40km TT, I would have averaged 28.69 instead of 25.3 mph! Tomorrow, calculate 12.5% of your body weight and add it to a backpack. Go ride your favorite loop and see if you can tell a difference! In the real world, as well as the cycling world, 12.5% is a large difference!
|Yeah, right ...||pmf1|
Nov 5, 2002 8:18 AM
|Your weight analogy is kinda silly. Bordering on stupid really. We're talking about a carbon tube here, not your body.
If a steerer is stiff at 1", adding another eight of an inch isn't going to make much difference. If its not, adding an eight of an inch probably won't solve your problems. You are comparing apples and oranges here. Think the Time fork would have been better at 1.125"? Think your HSC3 would suck if it were 1"? And does the bike enter the equation? I assume you're not riding that fine M4 anymore either.
I have a 1" Look HSC2 on a 56 cm Litespeed Ultimate with 1 cm of spacers and a Forgie stem. It is just as stiff as the 1.125" carbon fork on my Colnago. I weigh more than you and ride aggressively.
The consensus here, except for you, seems to be that the guy has nothing to worry about (as long as he's not using a Time Stiletto Featherweight on a M4 S-Works).
|Yeah, right ...||koala|
Nov 5, 2002 8:29 AM
|You have a colnago with a 1\18th head tube? Didnt know they made one...|
|Yeah, right ...||pmf1|
Nov 5, 2002 8:32 AM
|ooops, you're right, it's 1" too.|
|silly little 12.5 %...||merckx56|
Nov 5, 2002 3:44 PM
|if you spent 12.5% less time doing your job and 12.5% more F'ing off while at work, you'd probably get fired. I bet you'd like a 12.5% raise, huh? The small percentage does makes a difference. Granted, it may have just been that particular fork, but I felt what I felt. Period. Personally, I think a 1" carbon steerer is not the way to go. Merely an opinion, but I forgot, people can't have opinions on this board because there is always someone who will refute it!|
|silly little 12.5 %...||koala|
Nov 5, 2002 5:58 PM
|I bet a lot depends on riding style and technique. I noticed flex in my bar and stem combo but i tend to have more upper body strength(and probably poorer technique) than most road bikers, so I changed to stouter bars and a forgie stem and I noticed a difference. Some with excellent technique and\orless strength may not notice flex like i would. My 2 pennies.|
|not really an opinion||pmf1|
Nov 6, 2002 5:20 AM
|You claim that 12.5% is a big deal "12.5% is a large difference!" in cycling. Then you use some dumb body weight example to prove your point. So what if my bike were 12.5% heavier (about 2 lbs), would that make a huge difference? No lets make it a component since that's what we are talking about -- my pedals, stem, fork (pick one) now weighs 12.5% more. Suddenly, my bike is 80 grams heavier! Maybe you're on the fringe and are so efficient that it would make a big difference in that time trial speed, but it wouldn't make any difference to me. In fact, I doubt I'd notice it.
You're generalizing about one experience with one crappy 1" fork, probably a whippy stem and definitely a lousy frame. Given the choice between 1" and 1.125", definitely take the 1.125". However, the 1" will still work fine -- esp with what this guy is using.
And I'm so damn productive at work that if I worked 12.5% more, all my co-workers would kill me for making them look bad.
|I don't care if it is 12.5%, 25%, or 1.25%||KurtVF|
Nov 6, 2002 7:07 PM
|I was worried about flex in my fork too, and ordered an aluminum steerer but was accidentally sent one that was carbon(Muscle fork instead of a Carve) I weigh 190 and have an M4 frame and I'm sure my technique sucks since I'm not a pro, but I have NO flex with this 1" carbon tube in a 58cm frame. There is No flex that I can detect. NO flex. If you improved it by 12.5% there would still be No flex. Im amazed with such a light fork there is No flex but there is NONE. If you are worried about flex in a 1" carbon tube get the Muscle fork, as there is No flex.|
|Out of curiosity||pmf1|
Nov 7, 2002 5:38 AM
|Since you have the same M4 frame as my adversary, what stem are you using? And how long is it? I bet that has more to do with percieved steerer flex than the diameter of the steerer.
There is no flex in my Look or Colnago 1" forks either. My wife reports the same in her Ouza Pro and Colnago forks. If you have a quality fork, I can't believe that a 1" will behave any worse than a 1.125"
|The stem is......||KurtVF|
Nov 7, 2002 4:47 PM
|a 13 cm Cinelli Integralter. I don't doubt that a 1 1/8 fork is stiffer, you are probably correct that it is perception. I don't perceive any flex, so the increase in size would probably not seem like much to me. The Muscle fork seems like a great fork. It is basically a moot point for me.|
|I have a question.||Sintesi|
Nov 6, 2002 1:36 PM
|I do know that the tubes of a given material on the frame becomes stiffer and stronger if the diameter is wider. Isn't that what OS tubing is all about? Could this apply to carbon steerer as well? Have bike manufacturers gone to 1 1/8" because the head tube will be stiffer or because the steerer itself will be stiffer. Or is it both. I dunno, just asking.
Okay, I had a lot of questions.
|I have a question.||pmf1|
Nov 7, 2002 5:42 AM
|I always thought it was an "innovation" created by frame manufacturers to increase head tube stiffness. Either that, or the newest, coolest thing they could think of to convince people that they need new bikes.|
|I have a question.||Sintesi|
Nov 7, 2002 5:48 AM
|I'm more inclined to think the latter. : )|
Nov 7, 2002 6:45 AM
|I think the answer as to why the manufactuers are changing to 1-1/8" is fairly simple, they are building all frames to hold up under the worst possible situation, namely a large sized hammer head type rider. The larger steerer tube is clearly stiffer (approx. 25% according to my calculations), which will benifit said worst case riders using a tall spacer pack.
This is not to say that 1" carbon forks are bad per say but if the rider is quite heavy, or very strong, it would be best to keep the spacer height down as much as possible.
Nov 7, 2002 10:42 AM
|So a 1" carbon steerer is stronger than a 1 1/8" carbon steerer? This is what is confusing me. I know that the diameter increase works for AL tubing but does the stiffness for carbon products increase in similar fashion. It's just that I know with carbon so much of its properties are based on the layering and weave.|
|Larger is stiffer||Nessism|
Nov 7, 2002 12:05 PM
|The larger 1-1/8" steerer tube is approx. 25% stiffer than the 1". Sure carbon layering does matter but all else being equal, larger is stiffer.
|HSC3 is 1", HSC4 is 1'1/8. Agree with you on the 1'1/8 based on||Paul|
Nov 5, 2002 10:07 AM
|what friends tell me who have both. My friend has a 381i (HSC 4 with 1 1/8 of spacers), and he tells me he doesn't feel any flex, but feels flex with his 1" Reynolds Ouzo pro. I only feel flex when riding at high speed, and hitting bumps.|
|I have a Look AC353 steel frame with a 1-1/8" HSC3 fork.(nm)||merckx56|
Nov 5, 2002 3:39 PM
Nov 5, 2002 11:37 AM
|10mm of spacers is hardly anything, I've got 30mm of carbon spacers on my 1" Ouzo Pro, no noticable flex.|
Nov 5, 2002 12:36 PM
|Just want to echo so many others here. I just bought and installed a 1" Columbus Muscle fork. I've got 25mm of spacers for adjustment, with an ITM Millennium shimmed stem and Profile bars.
I've noticed no flex compared to the GT Edge (carbon blades, alloy crown, steel steerer) and Kore stem I was using.
Definitely use a stem with 2 pinch bolts for the steerer, and line the shim split up with the stem's, and you should be golden.
|re: 1" Carbon Steerer Tubes||HaydnG|
Nov 5, 2002 4:53 PM
|I've just had installed a 1" Time Millennium Stiff+ (carbon forks with carbon steerer + internal steerer re-inforcement) into my Pinarello Paris. They replace the Pinarello Aria carbon forks with steel steerer that were damaged in a crash. My initial view, based only on 2x 2-3 hour rides is that there is more flex in the fork area generally Rest of setup unchanged at present although bars are at least 10mm higher because the LBS didn't remove 2 of the 3x5mm spacers when they installed the 10mm or so deep Microset system that exerts compression onto the headset, instead of star-fangled do-da which can't be used because the reinforcement prevents inserting anything similar into steerer tube. This does mean the steerer has an extra 10mm above the headset, the part of the steerer above the headset is presumably the part that is more prone to flex. Not sure if this extra steerer height is making the difference, or whether it's the fork itself. Any views out there before I get 10mm cut off the steerer?|
|re: 1" Carbon Steerer Tubes||HaydnG|
Nov 5, 2002 4:58 PM
|I've just had installed a 1" Time Millennium Stiff+ (carbon forks with carbon steerer + internal steerer re-inforcement) into my Pinarello Paris. They replace the Pinarello Aria carbon forks with steel steerer that were damaged in a crash. My initial view, based only on 2x 2-3 hour rides, is that there is more flex in the fork area generally. Rest of setup unchanged at present although bars are at least 10mm higher because the LBS didn't remove 2 of the 3x5mm spacers when they installed the 10mm or so deep Microset system. The Microset exerts compression onto the headset, instead of star-fangled do-da that can't be used because the reinforcement prevents inserting anything similar into steerer tube. This does mean the steerer has an extra 10mm above the headset, the part of the steerer above the headset is presumably the part that is most prone to flex. Not sure if this extra steerer height is making the difference, or whether it's the fork blades and crown. Any views out there before I get 10mm cut off the steerer?|
|Speaking of numbers...||Nessism|
Nov 6, 2002 12:51 PM
|Just ran some calculation on the stiffness of both 1" and 1-1/8" steerer tubes (calculated area moment of inertia in bending). The calculation assumes that both steerer tubes are the same thickness - I choose 2.0 mm for thickness based on a WAG (wild ass guess).
Bottom line is that the 1-1/8" steerer tube is 23% stiffer. Considerable in my book. Of course this assumes the carbon layering is the same for both forks. I don't this assumption can be made when comparing forks from different manufactuers.
|Why align the splits in the shim and stem?||mahoneyjoe|
Nov 6, 2002 1:56 PM
|A couple of posts have said this; does Reynolds reccommend it? Why would it be important? Mine (ouzo pro with deda magic stem) is set up with the splits 180 from the other.|
|Why align the splits in the shim and stem?||KurtVF|
Nov 7, 2002 4:50 PM
|I guess the theory is that the splits would close better together, as opposed to your 180 degree setup. Maybe an engineer can comment if this is correct or not.|| |