Jul 16, 2002 9:45 PM
|Was just surfing and took a look at Airborne as was looking for a long seat post, anyhow see they've a new model coming, called the Torch - anyone know what it's gunna be???|
|It's going to be over-hyped......||Alexx|
Jul 17, 2002 5:19 AM
|as are all Airborne products. Also, there will be dozens of airborne-zombies posting reviews, claiming that it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Who knows-they may even get a new water bottle, too!|
|re: Airborne Torch||Akirasho|
Jul 17, 2002 8:18 PM
|Hype? Yeah... but that's marketing...
Airborne told me that it's a process more than a "revolution"... no different than Scandium or Nitanium or Unobtainum 235 (speaking of which... I didn't know that "Little Boy" was a gun type A bomb using Uranium... and "Fat Man" was an implosion type A bomb using Plutonium... we have "mockups" of both along with the Nagasaki bomber "BocksCar" at the United States Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio)
... talk about stream of consiousness... Jamie Raddin's Grandfather participated in "Operation Torch"
Remain In Light.
|what an UGLY logo!!||Alexx|
Jul 18, 2002 4:46 AM
|It looks like something that I saw on the jacket of a fat Hell's Angel one time!!!! YYYEEECCCHHH!!!!!|
Jul 18, 2002 5:48 AM
|Thread drift, but I really enjoyed visiting the Dayton Airforce Museum. My parents used to live in Muncie, Indiana, and I'd go to the museum every time I was there. Lots of really cool stuff. The highlight, I think was seeing an SR71 up close. Has to be the most elegantly designed aircraft ever. Got to touch a stealth fighter, with it's carbon fiber (sort of) skin. That plane is the total opposite of the SR71 - it's so chunky you wonder how it ever could fly.
Jul 18, 2002 9:01 AM
|It's a miracle those stealth planes fly!!! The best shape for stealth is a pyramid.... the engineers had to make one fly...That's one project i would've PAID to participate in!!!
About the SR71 plane, i agree, that thing is a work of art. There is only one thing they could never get right on this plane: the fuel tanks. They always leaked because of the heat that expanded everything. They had to fill it up and get to speed asap for everything to expand and seal properly, and then, they could go for a mid-air refueling.
Oh, i'm drooling again.....Sorry!
|SR71 Fuel tanks (serious thread drift)||TJeanloz|
Jul 18, 2002 10:04 AM
|I saw an interesting program on the technicalities of the SR71.
The most interesting fact (I thought) was that they had to buy the titanium from the USSR, because the United States couldn't produce enough to meet demand.
But the fuel tanks had the problem that if they were lined, the liner would melt in the heat, so they were unlined, and the ti sheets just held everything together, at speed and altitude, the ti expanded and closed all the gaps, sealing the tanks. What a serious PITA that would be...
|SR71 Fuel tanks (serious thread drift)||grzy|
Jul 18, 2002 6:10 PM
|And the only plane in the inventory to use JP-7 was the SR-71. Used to look at whole tank farms of it down in Diego Garcia....and wonder why all the drinking water tasted like jet fuel. Same guys must've made those tanks also. KC-10's and 135's used to fill up with the stuff, but they didn't burn it, yet the Airforce guys wouldn't admitt to what they were doing. |
Like they used to say in the military - fuel and oil leaking out of a plane on the ramp is a good thing - that means it's not empty. Used to be you worried about the ones that didn't have leaks.
|drift, drift and more drift||Jekyll|
Jul 18, 2002 10:29 AM
|the reason they went with the angular approach to the Stealth had a lot more to do with the lack of sufficient computer horse power at the time of design than anything else. Calculating curves for stealth functionality exceeded the available computer abilities at the time of the Stealth fighter's design. Later designs, like the B2, F22/23, make use of curved structures with no loss (supposedly a gain) in stealth characteristics (not like they will actually tell you the details). It is pretty wild that something like F117 actually flies (though it supposedly handles like a pig - definitely not a fighter like the F designation suggests).
The SR71 is one beautiful machine. Saw it in person as well, awe inspiring..
|... drifted to another site...||Akirasho|
Jul 18, 2002 12:03 PM
|... If you're into the history and development of flight in general, the Museum is an awesome resource (although they concentrate on USAF types... there are other types on the main grounds and the annex) and worth a visit. During the summer months, a group of us will make the museum a rest point on a ride (cuz it's got AC inside). As amazing as the displays are... even more amazing is that all this innovation has taken place in less than 100 years... a quantum leap in technology and it's application (you should have seen the arrival of a B1 A (now on permanent display) at the decomissioned (and very short) airstrip next to the museum (there was virtually no touch and go option...).
Also, consider visiting the Wright Brothers Memorial... easily accessable by bicycle (though a ride up Springfield Street puts you into heavy traffic for about a quarter mile... and a return on a short section of 444 is tricky but doable). At the top of the memorial (also the site of a Native American burial mound) you get a panoramic view of the main field and flight line (it's a short climb) http://www.wpafb.af.mil/ (the Blue Streak Time Trials are held around the perimeter of the runways) and the Huffman Dam http://www.miamiconservancy.com/Flood_Protection_&_Water_Management/Flood_Protection_System/Dams/Huffman.htm http://www.metroparks.org/Facilities/Huffman_MetroPark/huffman_metropark.html (when tropical storms/hurricanes hit the east and gulf coasts... several military variants are given "shelter from the storm" here... and sitting atop the memorial is like getting an airshow as Navy, Coast Guard and Marine types arrive and depart).
And, there's a restored Wright Brothers Bicycle shop in west Dayton (as well as other historical sites related to flight, cycling and the African American poet, Paul Laurence Dunbar http://www.udayton.edu/~dunbar/ http://www.ohiohistory.org/places/dunbar/ http://www.aviationtrailinc.org/ )
And, let's not forget the Dayton Peace Accords... http://www.state.gov/www/regions/eur/bosnia/dayton.html Ok, that's far enuff off the topics... for now (but hey, this is a working theme for Airborne too).
Remain In Light.
|drift to another order of magnitude (sorry--long)||sn69|
Jul 18, 2002 6:05 PM
|Faceting, as used in true first generation stealth--the F117--was an outgrowth of a doctoral thesis written by a Russian scientist in the Soviet Union in the late 1960s. It was pounced upon by Lockheed and DARPA as the two sought to develop an interdiction penetrator that could elude radar and, thus, negate the combat losses seen in Vietnam.
The SR-71's stealthy design has more to do with aerodynamics and intuative deductive reasoning than anything else. Skunkwork's hopeless diamond of 1970-73 (that would eventually evolve into Have Blue and then the F-117) was proceded by 15 years by initial CIA/Skunkworks development of the YA-12, the single seat precusor to the SR-71.
Here's where the story gets blury, as full disclosure of intent and developmental records has yet to take place. We know that the A-12 program began as a high altitude, high speed recon platform, flown out of the Groom Lake facility (incorrectly but permanently labelled Area 51) from the very early 1960s. There are also various claims and hints that the aircraft was also developed to fire some of the early, pre-Sparrow radar missiles and even more exotic claims exist that it was able to readily make sub-orbital jumps.
While the CIA continued to employ and experiment with the A-12, Skunkworks developed the slightly slower and larger SR-71, originally to be named RS-71 until LBJ misidentified it at a press briefing. The CIA operation, in fact, was conducting regular recce hops out of Okinawa in support of the Vietnam conflict until the USAF SRs assumed the watch. Sometime after that (in the early 70s), the A-12s were put to bed. One can only guess what the CIA flies now, aside from missile-firing UAVs.
In spite of all that, both aircraft demonstrated remarkable radar damping capabilities that were semi-intentional byproducts of fuselage blending. The real issue was material science and fuselage super-heating at speeds in excess of Mach 2.5. Thus the titanium, the heat sink specialized fuel, the leaks, and the aircraft shape.
...And, of course, it still remains one of the most awe-inspiring aircraft to look at. Ironically, most static displays around the country are actually A-12s per the USAF PAO office. You can tell the difference two-fold. First, the A-12 only had one cockpit; there was no additional space for the "WIZZO" in the back. Second, the cheek fins emerged further back on the A-12, giving it a notched appearance when looking at it planform/forward. Most SR-71s are either in the service of NASA, in long-term preservation or officially "NOT BEING USED." ...Except, of course, at Groom Lake.