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Mavic CXP 21 vs. Mavic Open Pro(15 posts)

Mavic CXP 21 vs. Mavic Open Proosc
Jun 12, 2002 5:04 PM
I am thinking about upgrading my wheel setup of Mavic CXP 21 rims/veloce hubs to Mavic Open Pro rims/chorus hubs after reading the many recommendations on this site. Most of the local bike shops that I have visited to discuss this change say that I will not notice much of a performance increase with the Mavic Open Pro rims/chorus setup. Instead of going with the Mavic Open Pro rims/chorus setup, the bike shops have been trying to push the Kysrium SSC SL, Kysrium Elite, Campy Neutron wheels. Is the assessment from the bike shops accurate or are they just trying to make more money with the some of these pre-built wheels? Also, can I infer that these bike shops may not be too knowledgeable or good at building wheels? Thanks.
lots of people say that 'standard' wheelsweiwentg
Jun 12, 2002 5:30 PM
are better than 'botique' wheels in that you pay tons more for little performance gain. I sort of agree (and mind you I like my botique wheels just fine). if I were you, I would attempt to get a set of good wheels second-hand. for instance, there's a set of velomax ascent comps on ebay for $350 (buy now), and they weigh in at 1472, which is far less than chorus/open pros could ever be.
you will notice some performance difference upgrading as planned- the open pro is lighter than the CXP21. how much, I cannot say. it depends on your weight. if you upgraded to the Ks, you'd get light + bombproof + relatively aero. ditto the Neutrons, but less aero. get those ascents on ebay, and you get hellishly light, plus bombproof (but God help you if the spokes break), plus a bit more aero than a standard wheel (they're 18/24 spokes).
YMMV, of course. if you're a larger rider, you would want to stay away from the stupid light stuff (Ksyriums and Neutrons are reportedly very strong, though). I can ride the light stuff because I'm light, and that probably colored my recommendations. larger riders who have broken botique wheels, find standard wheels far more reliable, and are strong enough to be able to ignore the admittedly not very large performance benefit may very well be right to scorn botique wheelsets.
lots of people say that 'standard' wheelsCharlie - Empire Cycle Craft
Jun 12, 2002 7:19 PM
I take a little bit different point of view. I think an experienced wheel builder can build a lighter, more responsive, and stronger wheel than you can get with most boutique wheels. It is very possible that your shop is not good at building wheel or is trying to get a higher dollar sale, but they could also just have a different opinion that us. I am a firm believer in handbuilt wheels.

Charlie Weisel
www.empirebicycles.com
Ksyriums?weiwentg
Jun 12, 2002 7:38 PM
strong, aero, pretty light. no disrespect, but can you beat those?
Since you threw down the gaunlet, let's smack those KrysiumsBianchi4Me
Jun 12, 2002 11:09 PM
I usually resist the temptation to do any "advertising" on here, but since you put the Krysiums up to be beat, it's tough to resist.

Here's a possible beating for the top-of-the-line Ksyriums SSC SL, though I recognize everybody will have different ideas of what's "best". No such thing really, only what's best for you. That's why custom build is such an attractive option to "one size fits mosts" factory pre-builts that are designed around some mythological average rider.

Please bear in mind that Mavic's claimed weights for the Krysiums are exactly that, just a claim based on an ideal pre-production prototype. A reliable "real world" average weight for the Ksyrium SLs is typically 30+g more per wheel than what Mavic is putting out. The advertised weights for the wheels I build are based on actual average weights for the components, and are guaranteed to be accurate to within 3%. That means that my worst variation from spec will never be as high as Mavic's average variation. Sorry to belabor this point, but it's pretty frustrating to compete with people who aren't very accurate. Questions? Check with Mavic (1-888-GOMAVIC) and see if they guarantee the accuracy of their advertised weights.

These wheels are comparably aerodynamic in terms of rim, hub, and spoke profile. They are lighter. They have a limited lifetime warrantee on the hubs. Their hubs use cartridge bearings with high-carbon steel bearings, whereas the lightest version of the Krysium uses a plastic washer as a wheel bearing in the cassette carrier to save weight. They are fully customizable in terms of spoke count, spoke model, hub color, nipple material and color. They use conventional steel spokes that don't cost $5 each like the aluminum spokes from Mavic (if you can find them), and I include a spare spoke in each size at no charge with the wheel. They include two year no-questions-asked free labor and at-cost parts for repairs. (For example, crash replacement with a brand-new rim and all new spokes and all new nipples for one wheel currently costs under $50 including return shipping. Give your local Mavic dealer a call and price that for the Krysiums.) These wheels also cost less than 1/2 of MSRP for the Krysium SSC SL. Now what might be a beating to me, may not be a beating to you, but I think these at least put up a pretty good fight!


indeed, those are goodweiwentg
Jun 13, 2002 2:46 AM
and I don't dispute the price. but are they aerodynamic? and are they bombproof? the Ks are both (yes, they're not full-aero, but they're pretty good). with a 350g rim, the acceleration has got to be terrific, but can those stand up to a heavier rider? (not an issue for me, I merely ask the question).
of course, I am kind of eyeing those rims (and the coming 30mm, 420g rims).
I don't think you clicked the specs for them.Bianchi4Me
Jun 13, 2002 4:26 AM
The wheels discussed above your post use the Fusion, a 470 gram, 25mm deep aero rim from Velocity, not the 19mm Shook CR350. That rim is extremely stiff, and extremely durable. They ARE comparably aerodynamic to the Ksryium, especially the SSC SL model where they flattened the rim profile by machining away the rounded top of the rim. As far as being absolutely "bombproof", that doesn't match my experience with any ultra-light "competition wheel", including the Ksyriums. Mavic has had to rework the hub design on those repeatedly, and I'm not convinced the current one with a plastic bushing instead of steel ball-bearings inside the hub qualifies as "bombproof"! The Ksriums are also relatively flexy laterally (side to side) compared to a conventional wheelset due to their reduced spoke count.
bah ... not enough coffee. nmweiwentg
Jun 13, 2002 5:45 AM
I don't think you clicked the specs for them.Bianchi4Me
Jun 13, 2002 6:14 AM
The wheels discussed above your post use the Fusion, a 470 gram, 25mm deep aero rim from Velocity, not the 19mm Shook CR350. That rim is extremely stiff, and extremely durable. They ARE comparably aerodynamic to the Ksryium, especially the SSC SL model where they flattened the rim profile by machining away the rounded top of the rim. As far as being absolutely "bombproof", that doesn't match my experience with any ultra-light "competition wheel", including the Ksyriums. Mavic has had to rework the hub design on those repeatedly, and I'm not convinced the current one with a plastic bushing instead of steel ball-bearings inside the hub qualifies as "bombproof"! The Ksriums are also relatively flexy laterally (side to side) compared to a conventional wheelset due to their reduced spoke count.
Velomax - bombproof? Mine were for all of 300 miles!Jekyll
Jun 12, 2002 9:08 PM
A built wheel is only as good as the person who built it. Most shops build questionable wheels and it takes some research to find a good local builder or a trusted guy on-line (oddandendos.com or speeddream.com - both build great wheels and have pretty immaculate reputations).
Just because two sets of wheels are OP/Chorus/ 3X DT 14/15, etc does not mean they are the same quality. In the end its not the parts, its the hands that put them together.
I think this is why many opt for the no-brainer like the K's (I did - 7k miles, single touch up to rear required so far - I'm 170lbs). You know what you're getting and have a plethora of information to go on. It is indeed the low risk, high price option.
What year...PsyDoc
Jun 13, 2002 9:17 AM
...were you Velomax's? I have a 2001 set of Velomax Orion's that are going strong after 3500 miles. After 500 miles, the bearings in the rear wheel went bad and Velomax fixed that very quickly. They indicated that due to bearing spec's, they have since switched bearing manufacturers.
2001Jekyll
Jun 13, 2002 11:38 AM
and velomax was not much help - didn't you and i go over this one before?
1472g? Hellishly light? Naww..knock about 1/2 a pound off thatBianchi4Me
Jun 12, 2002 11:44 PM
Here's a fun spec for the gravitationally challenged, and it weighs in at 1304g for the pair using 24 spokes front and 28 spokes on the rear. Not quite 1/2 a pound lighter than those VeloMaxs, but you could do a 24 spoke rear wheel with 15/17s and get darn close to 8 ounces lighter. Not recommended! The spec uses American Classic Design's new CR350 rims. Weighing in at 365g or so actual, they are made of a proprietary Niobium-Aluminum alloy and have a 19mm semi-aero profile. A rim that light makes the wheels extremely responsive under acceleration, since rotating mass on the periphery has the largest performance impact. Cost is ~$35 more than the Ebay pair, but that's not too bad for saving close to 200g of rotating weight.

(Note current rims have large sidewall stickers, the pics are ones from the first production batch.)

FRONT:
American Classic Design Micro 68 Hub: 67g
American Classsic Design CR350 Rim: 365g
Wheelsmith XL14 Spokes, 24: 114g
Wheelsmith Alloy Nipples: 9g
Total: 555g


REAR:
American Classic Design HH220 Hub: 235g
American Classsic Design CR350 Rim: 365g
Wheelsmith XL14 Spokes, 28: 130g
Wheelsmith Alloy Nipples: 10g
Total: 740g
1472g? Hellishly light? Naww..knock about 1/2 a pound off thatGuru_at_AmClassic
Jun 13, 2002 4:42 AM
I hope I can add my 2 cents in here, This is Michael from American Classic. All wheels are ONLY as good as the materials used and the builder of the wheels. There is no reason to put down a wheel if someone else has had good luck with them and likes them. I agree, there are some wheels out there that are lighter and some that are stronger. In the end it is the user who, with the help of his/her shop who needs to decide on what is appropriate for them. I am glad to see discusions on here that help the end user with their decisions. So, if any one has any questions on wheels from a wheelbuilder to both Joe Consumer and to many pro cyclists/duathletes and triathletes, give me a ring or post on here and ask away.

Guru
American Classic
1-800-813-5545
The basic question was...sprockets2
Jun 13, 2002 7:04 AM
if you would notice much of a difference with the OP/Chorus, and I would think not, as they have close to the same weight and are basically the same type of wheel, just a bit further up the ladder. That doesn't mean you shouldn't get them-a nice set of wheels is nice to have, and the current ones can be back-ups/rainy day wheels.

OTOH, boutique wheels often do offer performance gains, mainly due to weight savings-that being often due to newer materials and/or engineering. Other things, like Campy using asym rear rims, helps to make the wheel more effective at what it does.

Let the wallet and the actual needs of your riding be the guide.