RoadBikeReview.com's Forum Archives - Components
DA TRIPLE TROUBLE, help?(19 posts)
|DA TRIPLE TROUBLE, help?||DustyClark|
May 29, 2002 10:09 PM
|I bought a Klein Quantum Race last year with a Shimano Ultegra double. It shifts smooth as silk. I have a lot of steep hills near my home and decided to get a Trek 5500 OCLV with the new DA triple to tackle them. I went back to my bike shop where they didn't have a bad word to say about the triple, and said DA was the absolute best. Well, I plunked down nearly $4,000 for that bike and in the first 20 minutes of riding it the chain was rubbing, crunching and grinding with every shift, then the chain flipped off, and I almost took a dive. I took it back to the shop immediately. The first words out of the mechanic's mouth were "Welcome to the world of triples!" They sure knew all about it then! They explained that the DA (double or triple) needs extensive trimming, shifting, half-shifting and double shifting to stop the chain from rubbing and grinding. Neither the manager of the shop or the mechanic could shift through the gears even once without this grinding. It stands to reason this is going to wear out the drive train components a lot quicker. I contacted Trek and their customer service rep told me they had "issues" with the DA triple, and would send down another BB to try to at least keep the chain on the bike. It didn't do a thing for the grinding. The shop told me I would have to learn to trim it out every time I shift to stop that. I feel this is unacceptable on a $4,000 bike. The shop says I am stuck with it as is. They are only willing to exchange an Ultegra double for the DA triple,which they will put on a 2002 Klein they have in the shop. Oh, and they intend to keep the $1,000 difference I paid for the DA. The reason being they say they cannot get their money back on it as nobody wants a DA triple. (They still have the bike.) I have now dropped nearly $7,000 at that shop in less than a year, but that doesn't seem to cut any ice with them. Does anybody have any input on the DA triple problem? Please feel free to contact me at: email@example.com, Dusty|
|Man, you're LBS sucks!!||Paul|
May 30, 2002 4:20 AM
|I have Dura Ace double, Ultegra double, and an Ultegra triple on my wifes bike. I build my bikes. I don't have to do any fancy half-shifting, etc. with the Dura Ace double. My wifes triple works silky smooth, and it's been three years with only minor adjustments due to cable stretch.. Just followed the directions in setting this up, no rocket science. I Have no experience with the Dura ACe triple, but it should be similar/better then the Ultegra. |
This just sounds like a setup problem. Those jerks at the LBS are unbelievable on how they are treating you. "Welcome to the world of triples". Maybe you should try double clutching also.
Why don't you try an Ultegra BB? Is it the same size (118 mm)? All parts should be interchangable, at least it is so on the double Shimano components.
Wish I could help you more on this, maybe someone on this board has a Dura Ace triple. But your LBS is on the hook to make this work for you as part of the warranty. Why weren't they honest up front when you bought the bike? I would complain to the Better Business Bureau, etc.
Tell them the bike isn't leaving the shop until it works. Ask to see the original set up instructions that came with the components, or let them get you a set. See if there is a warning about how to shift. Don't believe Shimano would do this.
Don't let them BS you. Man, I'm pissed, and it's not my problem, just hate to see this sort of crap.
Keep us posted.
|Man, you're LBS sucks!!||DustyClark|
May 31, 2002 6:36 PM
|Thanks, Paul, I will keep you posted!
|re: DA TRIPLE TROUBLE, help?||Matno|
May 30, 2002 5:07 AM
|No Shimano components that I know of have ever been inherently messed up the way you describe. Any good setup can be tuned to run smoothly without exception. If you're spending the kind of money that you are, I highly recommend that you learn how to tune your gears yourself. (It's really quite simple). There may be certain combinations that do not work as well as others (like big/big or little/little) but you shouldn't really be using them anyway (notice Shimano calls it a 9 speed setup, not 27 speed). Anyway, more than likely the solution is as simple as adjusting the shifter cable or maybe even changing the length of the chain. Tell your LBS where they can go and get yourself a good how to book. (Or just find all the info you need on the internet. Parktools.com is a good place to start). Good luck!
BTW, you never said WHERE it is grinding. Please clarify so that other's can watch for the same thing.
|re: DA TRIPLE TROUBLE, help?||DustyClark|
May 31, 2002 6:35 PM
|Thanks for the input, Matno!
|those wrenches suck!||merckx56|
May 30, 2002 8:09 AM
|if those are the bozos working on your bikes, please, for the love of all that is cycling, find another shop! i just built a friends rig with d/a triple and set it up in less than two minutes. it sounds like the mechs at the shop either don't know how to work on bikes or just don't give a shit! either way, it's a lose/lose situation. if they aren't willing to exchange the d/a for d/a, get your bike and take your business elsewhere. they don't deserve the money! the ultimate response is to spend your money down the street!|
|those wrenches suck!||DustyClark|
May 31, 2002 6:37 PM
|re: DA TRIPLE TROUBLE, help?||Merlin Vince|
May 30, 2002 3:04 PM
|I have DA Triple on my bike. It works just fine on my bike (though not as smoothly as a double setup).
I have 30-39-53 front with 12-27 rear gears. Suppose that I am on 30-27. I can shift through 4 rear gears. Then I tap the Front brake lever a little bit to trim, then can go another 2 - 3 rear gears. Then shift over to 39. If I am going in the opposite direction a light push of the small lever on the front does the trick after 3-4 gears. The trimming of the front derailleur is second nature. Click-Click-Click-Click-Tap. To prevent dropping the chain, I bought a Third Eye Chain Catcher for about $7.00. It kicks in a few times during each ride!
|re: DA TRIPLE TROUBLE, help?||DustyClark|
May 31, 2002 6:37 PM
|new DA triple on my Serotta CSI||eflayer2|
May 30, 2002 4:00 PM
|I have the da triple on my Serotta. I get some chain rub in only 3 gears at this point. Only when the chain is most severely crossed. Otherwise all is smooth and quite clicky. I have not been back to the shop yet to see if there is any adjusting they can do to get rid of the chain rub, but they do owe me a tuneup. By the way I have an Ultegra triple on my other bike and I can use all 27 gears without an ounce of chain rub. Perhaps if I had it do over again, I'd just stick with tried and true Ultegra and save the extra $500.|
|new DA triple on my Serotta CSI||DustyClark|
May 31, 2002 6:38 PM
Thanks for the response and input,
|I think I may have the answer||bludoggy|
May 30, 2002 9:15 PM
|I just got a couple of Trek 5200s and am having problems with the chain line. The problem occurs in the middle chainring and easiest cog in back. The chain rides up on the teeth of the middle chainring and then 'skips' and/or drops down into the small chainring -- almost throwing me over my bars, since it usually happens while climbing or sprinting. My LBS finally contacted Trek and got the idea of shimming out the cassette .5 mm and removing a .5 mm spacer in the bb. This hopefully will do the job. I get the bikes back tomorrow and have a big ride with lots of climbing planned for saturday. I'll keep you posted as to whether this fixes the problem
|I think I may have the answer||DustyClark|
May 31, 2002 6:39 PM
|Hello, Steve, I look forward to hearing how the chain line works out.
Thanks for the input.
|Why not just change a spacer size on the cassette?||Paul|
Jun 3, 2002 4:51 AM
|Not sure what they are really removing in the BB. Keep us posted.|
|Why not just change a spacer size on the cassette?||bludoggy|
Jun 3, 2002 6:43 PM
|can't really shim the cassette out anymore without running out of threads to hold the whole thing together. The bb thing they removed was a little spacer that stuck up to protect the frame when the chain drops off the small ring (not an uncommon problem with trek oclv, it appears). The shimming didn't really help, it turns out. So now my LBS is talking of just converting it to a double, or even sending the bike back to Trek. The LBS has confirmed that the bike (Two bikes, actually; mine and my girlfriend's) has a bad chainline. We'll see...|
|re: DA TRIPLE TROUBLE, help?||DaveG|
Jun 1, 2002 12:23 PM
|Sorry to hear of your woes. Assuming the story is accurate, your shop is totally out to lunch. I don't have DA triple but I have to assume the performance is far better than what you are getting. Both my triples shift fine, even a lowly RSX setup. You may have to trim when you go from one end of the cassette to the other, but certainly not every shift. I would suggest you find another shop (one that knows what they are doing) and send the bill to these clowns. You spent a lot of money and deserve much better treatment. They seem to have neither the know-how or desire to make you happy. Find yourself a good shop, one run by bike nuts, without a fancy showroom floor and that has the experience and customer service attitude to resolve this. I can't see what is so different about the DA triple compared to 105 and Ultegra that would deteriate the performance so much. I suspect the 5500 has fairly short chainstays which could create a bad chainline in the extreme configurations (big ring/big cogs; small ring/small cogs) but those gears are redundent anyway. Good luck|
|re: DA TRIPLE TROUBLE, help?||DustyClark|
Jun 1, 2002 6:38 PM
|Hi, Dave, thanks for the response. I had contacted Trek by email when all this started, and they emailed me back that they had been having "issues" with the DA triple, and they automatically sent a shorter BB to my LBS to see if that wouldn't at least keep the chain on the bike, but it didn't do a bit of good on the loud chain rubbing. I took a week's vacation off work to ride my new bike, and it has spent all that time in the shop (its still there). They say its perfect and the chain rub is normal, I say it isn't, and they refuse to do anything except what I mentioned about giving me the Ultegra double in exchange for it, and keeping the $1,000 difference I paid. I bought the bike by credit card and am seriously thinking about disputing the charges altogether at this point. I'm not paying $4,000 for junk. Thanks for responding to my situation.
Dusty Clark (firstname.lastname@example.org) Email any time.
|re: DA TRIPLE TROUBLE, help?||Shultzman|
Jun 3, 2002 9:00 AM
I've got a DA triple on a Trek 5900 frameset. I've had a problem with dropping the chain off the inside when shifting to the granny. My LBS (or) I cannot make it miss the shift on the workstand, but it will drop the chain about 1 out of every 3 shifts from the 39 to the 30 when actually riding.
I also notice that the trim adjustments are not as sure feeling as my last bike's Ultegra double front shifter. Sometimes when I go to trim the front der.; it makes a complete (or) incomplete shift, instead of trimming the frt. der.
At this point I'm pretty disappointed, but my LBS hasn't had a chance to work with the fine tuning. I'll hold my judgement until they've tinkered with it a couple of times.
I've not had any real problems with rubbing or grinding in normal cross-chaining situations. I try to avoid the big-big, little-little combinations.
I do notice the front shifter seems to have a longer throw than my Ultegra double. That surprises me, and is not what I would expect from Dura Ace.
Keep us posted on your efforts.
|Shultzman, my "3rd Eye" chain watcher stopped that. EOM||snuggleman308|
Jul 3, 2002 4:30 PM