|campy 9-speed with shimano cassette?||nyedid|
May 7, 2002 7:28 AM
|i've heard of a number of people using this setup before for a variety of reasons. i'm considering doing the 9-speed upgrade to my 8-speed chorus group and using a shimano 9-speed cassette b/c my wheels (mavic cosmic pro) have the shimano freehub body. anybody know if this works? anyone tried it? let me know!|
May 7, 2002 8:19 AM
|Using a wheels manufacturing "accelerator" cassette, which has the proper spacing would be advisable. These are available in both 9 and ten speed models from Excel sports.
Stock shimano cogs are spaced 4.32mm and campy spacing is 4.55mm. The difference in 5% per shift, which accumulates to a minimum of 20% error after four shifts, if the derailleur is centered on the middle cog. If the derailleur is not properly adjusted, the misalignment could be as much as 40%.
I question the wisdom of upgrading to 9 speeds instead of 10. Upgrading to 10 speeds doesn't cost a lot more.
|well, here's the deal. i need some help!||nyedid|
May 7, 2002 11:30 AM
|i got a bike used recently and the rear derailleur just isn't shifting right. it's campy chorus 8-speed on mavic cosmic elite wheels, which have a shimano freehub body. therefore, the cassette (which is a mavic cassette) has spacers in it. i took the bike to my LBS, who examined it and said the spacing is off, which accounts for the poor shifting. i thought it was the cable tension, as did a friend of mine. i don't necessarily want to upgrade, but i don't know who to trust-- the guy i bought the bike from says it's working fine and that he doesn't know what the problem is, and the LBS is saying that the spacing is messed up. so i'm actually totally confused and have no idea what to do. help!|
|try this site....||C-40|
May 7, 2002 1:33 PM
From this site I got the following information. If you have a micrometer or dial calipers, you can verify the spacing. The mavic cogs may have a different thickness. Just be sure that the combination of 1 cog and one spacer adds up to 5mm (.197 inch) or very close to it. If it doesn't post the results of yur measurements.
Campagnolo 8 speed cassette cogs technical information:
Each cog is 1.9 mm thick. Campy uses 3.1 mm black resin spacers and spaces their cogs 5 mm on center. That is to say that the distance from the center of one cog to the center of the adjoining cog, measured from the center of the first cog to the center of the second cog, is 5 mm.
|RD Hanger sounds bent||tanman|
May 8, 2002 5:29 AM
|The rear derailleur hanger is probably bent either from shipping or from being dropped on its side. Either have another shop check the hanger for alignment or you can buy a Park tool for about $50-60 that will allow you to measure and correct it yourself.
Of course, the more expensive option is to replace the cassette and spacers--but I would not be implying that the shop is out to make a quick buck--or that they don't know Campy!
May 7, 2002 1:52 PM
|I have a racer friend who occasionally borrows my 12-27 Dura Ace cassette to use with his Campy Record 9 speed setup and Shimano hub wheels. He says it works fine. Note, though, that he is just one of those guys who just rides his butt off and doesn't worry about equipment much.
|it's not just a little off...it's waaaay messed up. please help!||nyedid|
May 7, 2002 2:58 PM
|the thing is, it's not like i'm nit-picking about a small issue. i have to push the shifters twice sometimes to shift up or down. i checked and it's actually a shimano cassette (8-speed) with yellow spacers in between. i haven't measured the thicknesses. but it doesn't really work well-- sometimes it sits in between gears, or won't go up into the gear i've requested. it works if i push the shifters again, however. i tightened and lubed the cable in the areas where the cable touches something. and i tried playing with the barrel adjuster in the back to get it to work. it just doesn't feel/work right. if i've got campy 8-speed chorus and mavic wheels (with shimano freehubs, i'm pretty sure), what could i do to fix this problem? my LBS thinks it's the spacing. help!|
|it's not just a little off...it's waaaay messed up. please help!||kcd|
May 7, 2002 4:15 PM
|There is a slight (about 5% per sprocket) difference in the spacing but the cumulative effect would not be 40% as previously mentioned. The adjustment is centered initially on one of the two center sprockets, so there would be 3 possible shift on one side and 4 on the other. 3x5%=15% on one side and 4x5%=20% on the other; but the limit screws would negate the 5% difference for the first and the last sprockets, so the cumulative effects are more like 10% max in one direction and 15% in the opposite direction.
I ride a bike that has Campy Record 8-speed shifters and rear derailer mated to a Shimano Dura-Ace 8-speed and they work fine together. See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
|Enough ?!@#$#@$ Math already,||TJeanloz|
May 8, 2002 4:24 AM
|The man has a problem with his derailluer adjustment. Simple as that. To run 8 speed campy on a Shimano freehub you would use shimano sprockets and 8 speed spacers from Wheels Manufacturing- they should be yellow- the Wheels part number is CAMP-SH8. It sounds to me like you have all of this set up.
If I was you, I'd re-install the lever and start adjusting from scratch. Worst case scenario, it sounds like the hanger may have been bent (was the bike shipped to you?).
|If simple arithmetic bothers you, stick w/one speed||kcd|
May 8, 2002 5:33 PM
|Multiple speed bikes can be very confusing without fundamental, elementary school level, arithmetic. I mean you got 2 or 3 chain rings up front, up to 10 cogs in the back, each w/ different numbers of teeth and connected in many combinations. Stick w/ one speed if you have problem with arithmetic.
Not all 8-speed Shimao hub are compatible with Wheels CAMP-SH8 because the hub may not be wide enough to accomodate the CAMP-SH8's wider spacers. It may be possible to make them work by leaving one cog out (as a 7-speed); but then you'd be using an 8-speed shifter for 7 cogs.
May 9, 2002 4:16 AM
|You're right that the wheels kit won't work with everything, but it will definitely work with a Mavic Cosmic Pro, the wheel in question.|
|oops, I was talking about 9 speed / 9 speed; never mind nm||DougSloan|
May 8, 2002 5:29 AM
|re: campy 9-speed with shimano cassette?||atpjunkie|
May 7, 2002 7:49 PM
|firstname.lastname@example.org this guy is the campy/shimano expert. send him an e.|
|It works, forget the marketing math||tanman|
May 8, 2002 5:21 AM
|This setup works for me and many others, regardless of what people carrying micrometers or dial calipers and no experience tell you. This has been known since 1998!
Forget the #'s--the systems may seem incompatible, but that was created by the marketing mavens. If you don't believe me, try this out: Go to a bike shop with a bike that has Campy 9 speed--say Veloce or Mirage (either a friendly shop or tell them that you are considering buying that bike but have an extra set of Shimano wheels). Stick a Shimano 9 speed wheel in it. Have the mechanic reset the hi-low settings if necessary. See if it works--I'd bet it does.
If your shifting is off, check the der. hanger--it might be bent--very easily happens if the bike keels over on it, it crashed, bike was shipped, weight was placed on it.
Remember that both Campy and Shimano have floating pulleys that are designed specifically to compensate for real-world manufacturing and adjustment errors. The specs and #'s to the tenths and hundreds of millimeters are just that--not the real world #'s. In my own experience, you can rebuild an 8 speed cogset to 9 speeds and get perfect shifting IF you replace the 3mm spacers with 2.5mm spacers--presto, great shifting--because cog thickness from 1.8mm to 1.78mm is meaningless in reality. Funny how reality sometimes contradicts marketing fiction.
|Just did it.||unchained|
May 8, 2002 12:24 PM
|I'm running Campy Record 9sp Ti rear derailleur with indexed Campy D/T shifters and DuraAce chain. Wheels are Spinergy with Ultegra 13-23 cassette. It works great right out of the box without special spacers, etc. Just make sure your chain is lubed adequately. Over time the chain will mesh with your jockey wheels and it will become even quieter.
Ultegra cassettes are cheap, light, and avail. in a number of ratios. See lickbike.com or branfordbike.com.