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Carbon Steerer?(23 posts)

Carbon Steerer?Dan Q
Mar 8, 2002 9:24 AM
I am anticipating getting a new fork for my bike. Contemplating either a Reynolds or Alpha-Q. I am wondering on whether or not to get a carbon steerer. I have a long 1" head tube and the steerer will end up being about 11". There will be a 20mm spacer and most likely a Thomson stem with the 1" steerer tube converter. I weigh 170lbs. Do you think a carbon steerer will be o.k. for me or too wimpy?
re: Carbon Steerer?Lshark
Mar 8, 2002 9:41 AM
If i remember right the Thomson stems have a internal tightening bolt which i was told cannot be used on a carbon steerer..You might be hitting the limit for spacers at 20mm for a 1" carbon steerer..
That's a bunch of B.S.Barnyard
Mar 9, 2002 6:23 AM
You can use a thompson stem on a carbon steerer. You're going to using a spacer (for one inch steerer) so that's going to dispearse the pressure of the clamping mechanism on the steering tube. I spoke with the Thomson people about using carbon steerers. They said it's ok. But like anything, don't over tighten. I use a Thomson stem on a one inch steering tube. No problems here and I don't plan on encountering any.
That's a bunch of B.S.johnjohn
Mar 9, 2002 11:07 PM
Same here. I use a Thomson stem with 1" carbon steerer EC70 fork and it works great. Stem rocks by the way.
And additionallypmf1
Mar 13, 2002 5:11 AM
You can get away with 2 cm of spacers.
re: Carbon Steerer?dsc
Mar 8, 2002 12:28 PM
Reynolds says 25mm max spacers for their 1" carbon steerers.
If the Thompson stem uses a pinch bolt fastening system, then you won't be able to use it.

-Debi
Once again I got educate people about AME forksBarnyard
Mar 9, 2002 6:30 AM
You can have as many spacers as you want on an AME fork, as long as part of the aluminum insert, (that you glue into the steering tube with star fangle nut) inserts a bit into the steering tube of the bicycle frame. That is, it projects far enough into the steering tube of the fork, that it over laps the steering tube of the frame. They have these guide lines for strength reasons. I got this info right from an AME worker out at the bike show in Las Vegas.
re: Carbon Steerer?CT1
Mar 10, 2002 10:23 AM
IMHO: 2 cm of stem spacers on a 1" carbon steerer is really marginal in terms of flex. It WILL work but it will also be a tad bit flexy when you are doing out of the saddle sprints.

YMMV
JohnG
re: Carbon Steerer?Barnyard
Mar 10, 2002 5:35 PM
I suggest you cut and install an alpha q fork, and then maybe you'll change your opinion. The aluminum sleeve inserts at least 3 inches into the tube. I think your terms of flex are grossly exaggerated. And people who want the stack height, let them have it. They can always run spacers on top when they're doing out of the saddle sprints.
Al sleeve probably does make a difference.CT1
Mar 10, 2002 6:02 PM
You're probably right re the Al insert. I forgot that Alpha uses an Al insert. That's a pretty cool way of doing it actually and wish more fork manufacturers did that. Hmmmmm..... makes me want to do the same on my HSC-2.

My 1" LOOK carbon steerer tube flexed like crazy until I lowered the stack to 0.75cm. I'll stick to my comments re unsleeved 1" carbon steerer tubes.

ride on
Al sleeve probably does make a difference.TJeanloz
Mar 11, 2002 6:22 AM
Yes, the aluminum insert is a "cool way of doing it". Why not save yourself the hassle and buy a fork with an alloy steerer tube?

That AME system is the stupidest thing I've ever worked with (except for products marketed by Profile).
Al sleeve probably does make a difference.CT1
Mar 11, 2002 7:31 AM
I've got forks with carbon, steel, and Al steerer tubes.

The carbon steerer feels OK now that it's down to sub 1cm spacers. The Steel fork still feel more secure though. Big surprise, eh. And I'm only 150#. I think anyone in the >175# range would do well to consider an Al or steel steerer. It will only "cost" a few ounces and in the big picture that isn't enough to make any difference.

JG
"Stupidest thing"?? Why? perhaps you can elaborate?Barnyard
Mar 11, 2002 7:43 AM
"Stupidest thing"?? Why? perhaps you can elaborate?TJeanloz
Mar 11, 2002 8:02 AM
1. They have a nasty habit of debonding at the least opportune moment.

2. It limits your ability to trim the fork further, or put it on another bike (with a shorter head tube).

3. Why would you buy a carbon steerer just so you could shove a piece of metal down it? Why not just buy a solid aluminum ingot and use that as a steerer?

4. It is my opinion that AME utilizes this number because they were unable to design a sufficiently strong carbon steerer tube. I have seen more AME steerer failures than any other brand except Advanced Composites- but given that AC produces half the forks in the world and AME only about .5%, the failure rate is much higher for AME.
"Stupidest thing"?? Why? perhaps you can elaborate?Barnyard
Mar 11, 2002 10:11 AM
Yeah, AME forks are debonding all the time. Some people don't think running spacers on top is fashionable. How about transfering a fork from a smaller bike frame to a larger one. Do you know a way of adding lengthening a steering tube? If you do let me know.
"Stupidest thing"?? Why? perhaps you can elaborate?TJeanloz
Mar 11, 2002 10:26 AM
Of more than 20 AME forks that I sold, more than half (11) debonded. I'd call that a problem. I was, and continue to be, very disappointed in AME's quality.

In terms of transferring, clearly you cannot go smaller to larger with any fork, but you can go larger to smaller with any fork except an AME- I'd say that's an advantage to other forks.
Al sleeve probably DOESN'T make a difference.grzy
Mar 11, 2002 11:16 AM
In the engineering world one realizes fairly quickly in their second year Statics course that the material interior to a sufficiently thick enough walled tube makes very little difference. Jammig and aluminum slug inside a thick walled carbon tube is no exception. Sure a solid rod is stronger than a tube of the same material but the difference is small compared to the weight increase - it's in the realm of diminishing returns. If CF isn't strong enough then jamming a chunk of aluminum inside isn't going to help much....unless the design is poor.
Oh well...Barnyard
Mar 11, 2002 12:35 PM
At least I'm not riding on a carbon fork that bonded to aluminum crowns. There are more of those things out there. I still don't think the insert is a bad thing. Better than a star fangled nut in a carbon tube. I don't believe it is the same as an alloy steerer. For clamping purposes, what's the difference between the insert and a thicker walled carbon steerer? I thought people prefered carbon steerers for their supple qualities, not rigidity.
Oh well...weiwentg
Mar 11, 2002 2:35 PM
I thought people preferred carbon steerers due to weight ...
anyway, if you use a star nut on a carbon steerer, you kill the steerer. if you use a star nut on a carbon steerer with an alloy insert, do you still kill the steerer? I would rather use a star nut than an expander wedge. I'm not saying that AME's steerer tube design is good, but perhaps their aluminium sleeve is something to think about.
btw, grzy, nice to see you managed to remain civil. keep it up.
Oh well...grzy
Mar 12, 2002 10:00 AM
Ah thanks - I'm swearing off the gin at lunch these days.....

The only real purpose of either a star nut or and expander sleave is to provide enough compression on the headset stack so that the stem may be clamped in place. While you can get away with not doing this with a non-CF steerer, you really need this on the CF steerer since you can't use something as tenacious as a star nut against the CF. This is why I favor stems with two bolt clamping mechanisms and significant contact area.
Al sleeve probably DOESN'T make a difference.SnowBlind
Mar 11, 2002 2:34 PM
And you would be correct.
The website clearly states the purpose of the AL insert is to allow the use of a star-fangled nut rather that the expander bolt, which they believe causes problems.
It is not there to strengthen/stiffen anything.
Either way, it is a nice fork.
Except...grzy
Mar 13, 2002 3:24 PM
...for all the reported failures - IMO.
If I were you...Qubeley
Mar 16, 2002 7:27 PM
I won't take chance if I were you.
I have a EC70 with carbon steerer, originally I put 20mm spacer and it flex so badly that sprinter is like pulling elastic bands. And that's 1 1/8, My guess is it can only be worse with 1 inch. I just had the steerer cut all the way down today, and it feels like a totally different fork! Amazing what a difference just those 20mm of leverage makes!
buy the way, I weigh only 110lb, heavier rider will only have a worse problem. I would also stay away from the Thomson stem, my friend had one, not impressed. They make fine seatpost. As for stem, look somewhere else, deda, ITM.