|Full Chorus Vs Ultegra / ksyrium wheelset?||Zuza|
Mar 1, 2002 5:24 PM
|I am building up a new custom steel Serotta and have a choice of putting a full Chorus kit w/Camy wheels or an Ultegra kit with ksyrium wheelset (but can only use shimano on this set of ksyrium wheels) for about the same price. I personally like the Chorus shifting and braking slightly better, but could certainly be happy with Ultegra if the wheels really make that much difference in the ride? What would you do?|
|Sounds like they both would be nice bikes||Barnyard|
Mar 1, 2002 8:47 PM
|Why don't you get the ultega with the shimano wheel set that comes with the carbon fiber rims? That's the wheel set to have.|
|What kind of Campy wheels?||McAndrus|
Mar 2, 2002 6:17 AM
|You didn't mention the type of Campy wheels. For instance, I wouldn't compare a set of Protons (though I ride them and am very happy with them) to Ksyriums. Neutrons on the other hand, I think compare very well.
So, were it my bike I'd go with Campy but I've ridden Campy for years and am addicted. I have also ridden bikes of friends with Ultegra and Dura Ace so I do have a basis for comparison. As you do, I prefer the shifting feel of the Chorus. Many people like the smooth feel of Shimano shifters - they do sort of glide from cog to cog - but I prefer the solid, click-in feel of Campy.
But - before the flames start - it is a simple preference. I am not willing to fight and die for that preference.
If it were my bike I'd go with Chorus with Neutron wheels. But it's one of the great joys of our sport that I'd be pretty happy with either setup. It's really a win-win situation.
Mar 2, 2002 6:54 AM
|usually means Chorus hubs laced to Open Pros or Montreal rims..........|
Mar 2, 2002 7:08 AM
|This is the way to go. I love mine. Ultegra is nice but I like the positive feel of campy and my mechanic says it will last longer. His opinion, note he has raced, ridden and worked on campy his whole life.|
|I too am addicted...get the chorus nm||Ligon|
Mar 2, 2002 11:28 AM
Mar 2, 2002 9:29 AM
|Why not get Chorus AND the Kyserium SL's? That's what I did.
The K's are available with the Campy spline now.
|How does Chorus shift versus Dura Ace and Record?||Sempi|
Mar 2, 2002 1:09 PM
|How does Chorus shift versus Dura Ace and Record?||TRexHex|
Mar 3, 2002 4:37 AM
|Chorus shifts the exact same as Record, the EXACT same. The only difference between the two is that Record uses some lighter ti and carbon parts and that's it. Some guys say the Record shifters are snappier feeling because they are made of carbon, this is a bunch of bull dookey. If you blindfolded these guys and then made them try both they wouldn't have a clue as to which is which.
The funniest thing of all is when I see some guy out on the road running full Record with a 300g saddle or a heavy stem/bar combo. The guy spent all that money to save 1/3 lb in weight (because that is the only difference between the two groups) and then he added the weight right back on his bike. Gets me laughing.
Chorus is also just as durable as Record, perhaps even more durable since the parts are more beefy. If you are going Campy get the Chorus, it's basically Record from a prior year with a little more weight. If you have a hole to burn in your wallet, like paying more for things just for the fun of it or looks or just want to be able to show people you have Record, go for the Record. Unless you are a pro racer it's almost ridiculous to argue you needed to get Record to save a whopping 170 grams of weight which is barely 1/3 of a pound and the group from a mechanical standpoint is identical to Chorus, no improvement in shifting or braking performance whatsoever. record for the recreational rider is like the guy who drives his 959 turbo through 30 mph rushhour traffic so that he can show people what he owns. That sight is always good for a laugh or two.
|Campagnolo vs Shimano||McAndrus|
Mar 3, 2002 9:07 AM
|Here's my totally personal, subjective opinion.
The Shimano front derailleur system is superior in that a click produces a buttery slide of the chain from ring to ring. Campy's front shifter (any group, I think) is a little less sure. Shimano has a disadvantage here for me, though, because of the problem in trimming the chain in the derailleur to eliminate noise.
The Campagnolo rear derailleur is a more definitive, click-in kind of feel. In a sprint situation if I have to shift up and I hit the lever, it shifts *now*. The Shimano rear derailleur has the same buttery gliding feel of the front derailleur and there is an ever-so-slight pause from the moment when I ask for the shift and the shift happens.
But, let me say again, Shimano makes great stuff. If you gave me a C-40 with Dura Ace on it, I'd take it in a heart beat. I just prefer the Campy.
|How does Chorus shift versus Dura Ace and Record?||CT1|
Mar 3, 2002 1:58 PM
|Not a lot of experience with Dura Ace but Chorus and Record shift the same. However, I like the feel of the Carbon Record levers. The Chorus Al levers feel cold to me sometimes. No big deal in the big picture though.
I've test riden Shimano bikes and don't like the feel of the the hoods or levers. I also like the extra gear on Campy. In fact I can't wait till Campy comes out with an 11 or 12 speed. :) I'll jump on that as soon as it hits.
The funny thing is that if Shimano delivers an 11-12 speed drivetrain before Campy I may have to hold my nose and buy it. ;)
|Fully spoked wheels vs Ksiriums?||zuza|
Mar 3, 2002 2:39 PM
|The Campy wheels are Proton. Does anyone have an opinion on the ksirium wheels and how they ride compared to fully spoked wheels?|
|Fully spoked wheels vs Ksiriums?||luresdouble|
Mar 3, 2002 8:34 PM
|I have em. I think they ride like a stiff wheel. I'm not sure what you mean by fully spoked because some fully spoked wheels are stiff and some are not. I think they are a very sturdy, stiff wheel because of both the large bladed spokes and the strong rims.|
|How does Chorus shift versus Dura Ace and Record?||luresdouble|
Mar 3, 2002 8:31 PM
|Do you think Campy has pushed the envelope as far as 10 speed. 11 or 12 speed sounds like fun in theory but I think they're getting to the point where you would be adding so much dish to the rear wheel that it may not be worth it. Plus what about crossing? Eventually you'lll get to the point where you can only use the middle gears anyway unless you want to be effectively riding crossed constantly. A properly tensioned chain only has so much play in it.|
|C11/12 could VERY easily be done||CT1|
Mar 3, 2002 10:26 PM
|MTB's use 135 mm axle width. A C12 drivetrain would only need a 138mm axle spacing and the wheel would have the same dish as previous standard.
That's what I'm hoping for; a C12 system:
11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 23, 26
There would be a gear for all occasions. :) I would buy new frames for this drivetrain in a heartbeat. In fact there was a rumor floating around about Shimano getting a patent on a 12 speed system.
|C11/12 could VERY easily be done||SteveMix|
Mar 3, 2002 10:41 PM
|I think they should go for a 20 cog cassette. Then I could ride my bike around like the guy in Spartacus and try to take other riders out with my cassette lockring. My gears would be 11, 11.5, 12,12.5,13......26|
|Please, let 10 be enough already!||cyclaholic|
Mar 4, 2002 6:53 AM
|I am very surprised that Shimano has not yet responded to the advent of the Campy 10-speed cogset. Nine is enough for me. I am all for technological advance, but I fear it has become more marketing than true mechanical improvement.
The rumor about Shimano playing around with 12 speeds is unsettling. I propose a Constitutional Amendment that sets up dish limits.
|No change in wheel dish needed||CT1|
Mar 4, 2002 7:43 AM
|As I mentioned before you won't need to dish the wheel to take a C11 or C12 |
I have many different wheel/cassette combos and the only time I "need" the ultra tight cassette is when I'm "racing" I.e. going flat out on a hard ride. In those situations the straight block makes a BIG BIG advantage. The additional 2 gears (C12) would allow a straight block but also give me some lower gears when the road tilts up. Howeve, iIf I lived in a flat area a 9 or 10 would be OK.
|I don't get it||Turbocharged|
Mar 4, 2002 10:28 AM
|Unless you are adding some type of counterbalancing weight to the nondrive side of the rear wheel, how can you add one or two more cassette cogs and not be changing the wheels dish?|
|I don't get it||CT1|
Mar 4, 2002 9:14 PM
|Axle spacing could increase my 8mm on the drive side. Thus the actual wheel dish would stay the same as the current standard. Perhaps an extreme solution but it is certainly doable.
FWIW: I think a C11 would be easier on consumers and more consistent with the evolution of chain driven drive trains.