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Ultegra "soft-click" for a double(15 posts)

Ultegra "soft-click" for a doubleGeekRoadie
Jan 20, 2002 7:01 PM
Is it just me or should an 2001 Ultegra shifter have a soft-click for the front der? Interestingly enough, I can trim with soft-clicks when upshifting (small ring to big ring) but lose this capability in downshifts. When I try to trim in the big ring the chain dumps to the smaller ring. Am I missing something?

thanks
mike
re: Ultegra "soft-click" for a doublefeathers mcgraw
Jan 20, 2002 10:14 PM
It should, but it's a real small movement. I remember mine having this feature come and go mysteriously. Dura Ace levers do this much better.
Is there an improvement on this on Dura Ace??sgray8110
Jan 20, 2002 11:08 PM
I am putting together a new bike. Basically, I just upgraded my old bike to Ultegra back in July because I knew I'd be getting a new frame around this time. I should be getting a new frame any day now, but am hemming and hawing about the shifters. I have no complaints about the Ultegra group except this and it's fairly important. I can soft click up but not down so essentially the feature can can only be used on one chainring. Let's say I'm running a 53-14 which is currently my middle cog. I'd like to soft click the shifter into that intermediate position so I don't get chain rub if I go the bigger cogs, but if I click down, the gear snaps onto the smaller chainring. Now, if do that, I can soft click up and the derailleur moves into a middle position and I can run the small ring on the bigger cogs, but I can't do this on the big ring. It's simple I get two clicks up, but only one click down.. Is this a tuning problem or is this a deficiency of Ultegra shifters?? Does Dura Ace handle this better??

Thanks,
Spencer
My Tipgrzy
Jan 21, 2002 4:42 PM
Sounds like you are out of phase with your Ultegra shifters. The same STI shifter is used ofr both triples and doubles. DA uses different shifters for each application. On the Ultegra shifters there are three positions, but only two "soft clicks" or half shifts as I like to call them. So depending on which end of the range you are at you could end up with either two half shifts (one for each position on a double) or just one for the large CR on a triple. Shift into your big chain ring, then without moving the crank shift down while lightly garbing the shift cable along the downtube. you should be able to fell the different positions and you shift the lever. If you can't feel the two half shifts then loosen the cable from the front der. and feel for it. The limit screws can keep you from reaching the right position. This all sounds a lot more comlicated than it really is. It's not unusual for someone setting up a bike to make this mistake with the Ultegra shifter. No reason why you can't get your half-shifts and have your bike totally silent in all gear combinations. Occasionaly you'll encounter a bike with a less than ideal chainline and things will never quite settle down, but this can be fixed with a spacer on the BB.
Also.. in regard to my previous reply...sgray8110
Jan 20, 2002 11:12 PM
Dumb question but it's something I've thought of.. Would I be able to get just the left dura ace shifter and save money?? I am considering getting new shifters down the line like I said, but I have no complaints about the rear shifting which has been flawless on the Ultegra group for 6 months now. I've never missed a shift and the thing even shifts smoothly while climbing.. It's the front shifter that occasionally bugs me..

Thanks,
Spence
get the dura acefeathers mcgraw
Jan 21, 2002 8:06 AM
I switched to DA from Ultegra when the Ultegra's were damaged in a crash. I think it's one of the most worthy and noticeable upgrades in the group. The trim function when shifting up is like a friction shifter--you can move it to any position between the rings and it'll stay. Ultegra is indexed between the rings. Down trimming is indexed at one position for both. DA's are much more solid, feel better in your hand, and are just plain beautiful. Apparently the newest Ultegra's address some of these problems (rattling face plates, etc.), but I don't have any personal experience with them.
get campyEric16
Jan 21, 2002 10:25 PM
Get campy, there are enough "clicks" in the Ergopower front lever that you can get an almost friction shifter feel coupled with the ease of integrated shifting. Plus, you can still make multiple shifts in a single stroke of the lever going up or down. This means its easy both to move between the chainrings and tweek the FD to accomodate shifts in the rear cogs. yea Campy! Unfortunatly changing your shifters would also mean changing most of your other components, but if you are ever buying a new bike/grouppo make the change, you won't look back!
Idiot!cyclequip
Jan 24, 2002 3:11 AM
The multiple shift myth! How many times in your illustrious racing past have you needed to drop 3 cogs on your cassette? Last time you jumped onto a demerage in Flanders, no doubt. There is a trade: while Campy can drop down multiple cogs at back, both Campy and Shim can go up 3. Then again, you can't brake and shift up on Campy at the same time the way you can with Shim - one of the reasons they developed theirs the way they did - in real racing the need to drop 3 cogs in one shift is less important than the need to be able to shift both ways and brake at the same time!
re: Ultegra "soft-click" for a doubleGeekRoadie
Jan 21, 2002 1:12 PM
Hmm. I've tried many times while riding and on the repair stand and have to say that it is entirely non-existent. It makes me wonder if this was something only specific to DA setups. But, why would Shimano allow for trim in only one direction (upshift trim)?

This issue is sort of annoying for me because I get chain rub with the three smaller cogs + small ring. It would not be a big deal if were only in extreme cross combos (small-small/big-big) but this effectively takes away two combos that I use quite a bit. The chain rubs on the big ring when exiting the small ring in these combos.

Should I just accept chain rub since my chainstays are only 407mm?
re: Trim StopsChen2
Jan 21, 2002 7:21 AM
Not an expert on this, but I can see no reason for trim stops on a double. My Dura-Ace (1998) has no trim stops, and I've never had a reason to trim. That's what I like about it. It's either all the way left or all the way right. The Ultegra lever is the same as is used on the triple. I've always assumed that's why it has trim stops.
The only way I would have chain rub is if I were to get crossed chained, small to small. My frame is a 56cm OCLV. I suppose that chain rub could be an issue on smaller frames with shorter stays.
-Al
re: Ultegra "soft-click" for a doubleJimP
Jan 21, 2002 10:51 AM
I have a 2000 DA set and the front will trim up from the small to large chainring. There isn't any click, it just goes as far as you want to move it and stays there. The downshift just releases when you press the lever so there isn't any down trim available.
are you sure?KEN2
Jan 21, 2002 12:41 PM
I have the 2000 DA double and mine will click to trim one notch from the large towards the small chainring. It's subtle--if you just go for broke and push it will of course shift down to the smaller ring.
are you sure?JimP
Jan 21, 2002 1:50 PM
Well now that you bring it up.... I work out of town during the week so I can't check it until the weekend. I'll have to try my gentle touch and see what happens. Just looked at the new DA triple on the web that is supposed to have trim on all three rings. Interesting.
The trim will take this outPaul
Jan 22, 2002 5:29 AM
I have both the Dura Ace and Ultegra 9 speed (several years old), and I adjusted the trim to take out the double click on the Dura Ace. Use the barrel adjust (trim in a CCW direction when on the large chain ring, and the largest cog) if rubbing against the inner plate (makes the cable longer). Will usually have chain rub when going to this position, have to have enough barrel adjust to begin with during initial front derailleur set up. Trimming the barrel in either direction will move the inner cage plate closer(CW) or further (CCW) from the chain.

Don't mess with the stops once set up properly.

Have no slack in my Dura Ace shifter, when i click the shifter, it goes down to the small chain ring. Have some on my Ultegra.

Paul
Wow, if Shimano keeps refining STI ...scottfree
Jan 22, 2002 6:44 AM
... they may eventually invent friction shifting! ;-)