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is my rear wheel dished incorrectly???(12 posts)

is my rear wheel dished incorrectly???kam
Jan 17, 2002 4:01 PM
i bought a set of sun ringle pro elite wheels from a guy on the marketplace about a month ago. he claimed they were direct from sun ringle and that any probelms with the wheels would have been from factory. the wheels looked perfect. the problem is that when i mount the rear wheel on my frame, the wheel is off center, and the rim is closer to the right seat and chain stays. i took the frame and rear wheel to my LBS and they told me that the frame has perfect alignment and that the rear wheel is probably the problem. the rear wheel is assymetric(OCR), and they didn't have the tools to check if it was dished incorrectly. there is no wobble in the rim, so does it sound like it was dished incorrectly from factory??? i'll probably be taking it to supergo or cambriabike to see if they know what's exactly going on, i'm sure either has the right tools.
thanks in advance for any help
Are you pulling our legs?Kerry Irons
Jan 17, 2002 4:38 PM
Your LBS doesn't have the tools to tell if the wheel is correctly dished? Is this some sort of weird relatavistic brain teaser? The rim must be centered over the lock nuts, regardless of the construction. OCR simply means that the spoke holes are off center on the rim, not that the rim is not centered on the hub. Clearly this must be true, otherwise your wheel would not be centered in the frame. Put the wheel in the frame and measure how much off center it is. Reverse the wheel in the frame (freewheel on the non-drive side), and it should be off center the exact same amount but in the opposite direction. The wheel then needs to be dished 1/2 that amount to fix things, assuming it is the wheel that is the problem. Do I need to say that you should have this work done somewhere else than the shop you took it to?
Are you pulling our legs?jason in NH
Jan 17, 2002 4:58 PM
Are you thinking that superblo or some deal maker shop will have the ability to check dishing and your lbs can't? Do that have a dishing tool? If not take it to a local reputable shop to have it checked.
if you have a bike....DrD
Jan 18, 2002 4:06 AM
...then you already have a poor-mans dishing tool - install the wheel, note which chainstay it is closer to, then flip the wheel over (i.e., put the drive side on the non-drive side) - if it looks the same, it's the frame, if it's closer to the other chainstay now, then it's the wheel.
Your LBS is giving you the brush-off!Rusty McNasty
Jan 18, 2002 4:27 AM
You came in with a wheel you bought mail-order, then want them to check it. Of course they're going to jerk you around! Obviously, their shop wasn't good enough for you when you bought the wheel, so why should they help you?
That's the risk you take when you do mail-order for something you don't fully understand. If you want redress, take it up with the seller.
Caveat Emptor.
What a sad little world of your own you live in. (nm).Hardy
Jan 18, 2002 6:56 AM
Your LBS is giving you the brush-off!APSBiker01
Jan 22, 2002 12:59 AM
I agree. Not buying from your LBS is the Ultimate Insult. You don't think they are of any help, so they won't give you any help unless you want to dish out the big bucks for a repair.

Caveat Emptor, you deserve it.
Dumb LBS - That's why they lose to mail order.c40owner
Jan 22, 2002 12:07 PM
I bought a Jeep using "CarsDirect.com", completely over the internet. I picked up the Jeep at a local dealership. Guess what? They didn't give a crap where I bought the Jeep. They gave me a cup of coffee and an hour long orientation on the truck's features.

When I get my Jeep serviced (oil, tire rotate, etc.) I bring it to another dealer all together closer to my house. Guess what? The don't give a crap where I bought the Jeep. They charge me for the service and don't jerk me around.

Two months ago, the A/C unit at my house stopped blowing cold. I called an A/C repairman from the phone book. Guess what? They didn't give crap who sold me the original A/C unit. They fixed it, charged me, and didn't jerk me around.

SMART LBS - "Yes, you wheel is not dished correctly. I can fix it for you overnight for about $xx.xx"

DUMB LBS - "The wheel is fine." (Ha-ha! Mail order sucker!)

Look, if you only buy at your LBS, and consider it sin to order mail order, then as a LBS I don't have to win your business. I've already got it. No-brainer.

The trick is to capture part of the market that doesn't use a LBS. If you only buy mail order because you can save a ton of money, then as a LBS, unless I bring my prices down to mail order, I'll never get your business. Not going to happen.

If I'm smart, I continue to serve my customers who only go local, giving them perks, free advice and checks. I don't like people buying mail order, but since I can't stop them, I will charge someone appropriately to fix their mail order mess. At least I get some business from a market sector I otherwise can't tap in to.

If I'm dumb, I continue to serve my customers who only go local, giving them perks, free advice and checks. And then I jerk around the guy who bought mail order. This way I make no money out of that market.

Either the shop did not know how to check for dish, or they were jerking you around. Either way, don't go back to that shop. What smart businessmen they are! They really showed you!

Forget about this, ". . . their shop wasn't good enough for you when you bought the wheel, . . ." Consumers are diven by price not a value judgement placed upon the worthiness or nobility of the vendor.

" . . . so why should they help you? " - $$$ that's why.
Dumb people - That's why they lose to mail order.APSBiker01
Jan 22, 2002 2:30 PM
That's right; if you want the wheel to be fixed, you have to fork over the cash. LBS's won't give you crap unless you come in wanting a repair to be done free, which is kinda what it sounds like you did. The smart LBS (most) won't give you much if any crap about where you bought it, but they expect you to be able to know what to do when something goes wrong. If you are a good customer at an LBS, you'll find that you start to get free things, like a free cable here or a free cleaning of your frame there, if you patronize them.

Also, if you buy a Ford and take it to a Chevy dealer, the Chevy dealer will give you crap about buying a Ford. If you buy a HVAC unit for your house, the dealer that doesn't service/sell that brand will give you crap about buying it if you call him up about it. It's all about branding and service to one corporation or another.

You do get a better price by buying local. Your money stays local and helps keep inflation down in your area. Your wheel would have been checked for proper trueness, dish, bearings, etc. if you had bought it from a LBS. Service is where the LBS rules. If oyu don't want service and you only want to think you're saving money, go MO. If you really want to save money in the long run, go Local.

They should only help you if you want to help them.
ExactlyKerry Irons
Jan 22, 2002 4:50 PM
The shop is either incompetent (didn't realize that "dish is dish" and rim construction has no impact on measuring it) or blowing off the customer (knew exactly what to do but was just giving you crap). There's no other explanation I can see. Why would you shop at this LBS in either case?
Wheel dishCalvin Jones-Park Tool
Jan 18, 2002 6:58 AM
There may be two issues going on here. First, the wheel may be out of dish as you suspect. A dishing tool is a very basic tool for a professional store to own. You can flip the wheel around to get an idea if the dish is way off.

Secondly, the frame may be off, yet still appear "aligned". The dropout height could be different left-right, which would cause a dished wheel to set off in the bike. It is sometimes possible to file the low dropout to correct this. Consider having a professional shop do this.

For use of a dishing tool and wheel truing in general, see http://www.parktool.com/repair_help/howfix_truing.shtml

With luck, an image of the new WAG-4 dishing tool is below. This will accurately check dish with the tire still in place, and the skewer in the hub. It can in many cases even check dish with the wheels still in the frame.
Don't even need a dishing tool.Chen2
Jan 18, 2002 7:14 AM
A good truing stand like the Park TS 2 will dish and true the wheel simultaneously. You need a different bike shop or a friend with a truing stand.
-Al