|why not sapim spokes?||Woof the dog|
Dec 5, 2001 6:59 AM
|a mechanic who builds my wheels is past 50 yo, so he knows what he is doing. He ses he won't build with these spokes as the only ones he's seen were broken. How can I convince him to use these spokes? I mean a number of famous builders use these spokes with success, while he probably hasn't seen too many of them at all. What should I tell him?
He has this not new deep campy tubular 18hole rim that I want him to use with an am classic front hub and sapim spokes for super airdynamics, hehe. Its a pretty funky campy rim, any other tubular deep al. rims out there?
Woof, the airdynamic dawg
|find a new builder||str8dum1|
Dec 5, 2001 7:07 AM
|i mean why do u want to use them? i assume you are talkin about the bladed ones (CX Rays)? at like 1.50$ or more / spokes thats kind expensive with no benefits. I mean if you are using a 30 mm + AL rim, you are in now way concerned about weight. (all those rims are at least 500g as compared to a 285g 38mm Zipp rim)
Use regular DT bladed, or just Revs, and keep your builder.
|re: why not sapim spokes?||ebs|
Dec 5, 2001 8:06 AM
|Where did you get this 18 hole campy rim? And how much (if I may ask)?I'm looking for that exact rim. EBS|
|re: why not sapim spokes?||Woof the dog|
Dec 5, 2001 9:22 AM
|he had it built up with something, but the rims whats left. No clue what it is. and he was like, should I toss it? I am like, no wait, maybe I will have you build me a wheel with it. I don't know why he wanted to toss it, its a nice rim, but then again, the guy sells lots of Sevens. Does campy make only one such deep rim by the way? I could probably buy if from him and sell it to you for a tiny profit ;-)
|the rim is||Woof the dog|
Dec 10, 2001 2:37 AM
|campy Shamal rim. How heavy is it? I will look at damonrinard.com site...maybe I will find it.
Woof the puppy
Dec 11, 2001 6:28 AM
|I'm pretty sure the Shamal, like the Mavic Cosmic's I have, use an enclosed nipple. For this reason, the spokes need to have a round section of at least a certain length at the threaded end. Perhaps the builder is concerned about this. |
As someone else mentioned, a bladed spoke is only more aerodynamic in head-on winds. In a cross-wind, they have more surface area exposed, and can be less aero than a plain butted spoke.
Maybe you should consider using 14/15's to build the wheel, as they'll be cheaper (by about a buck a spoke) and not subject to the length consideration.
In any case, enjoy the wheel - Shamal's seem to be loved by most who ride them.
|re: why not sapim spokes?||pmf1|
Dec 5, 2001 8:38 AM
|I'd tell him its your decision, not his. If he thinks the spokes will break, that's your problem and you won't complain if it happens. |
There is nothing wrong with Sapim spokes. Dave Thomas at Speed dream uses them. The guy makes hi living building bike wheels. Nice bike wheels.
Dec 5, 2001 12:24 PM
|It is up to the builder to be proud of every wheel he produces. And if he feels that he cannot build a good wheel with a particular spoke, I admire him for refusing to do it.|
Dec 5, 2001 12:48 PM
|There is nothing wrong with strongly recommending against somehing, but refusing to do it is ridiculous unless there is a valid safety concern. The guy is a customer and his wishes should be respected. If I were in his shoes and this builder flatly refused to do it, I'd go someplace else. And never come back.|
Dec 5, 2001 1:04 PM
|It's not like he's asking him to build with pieces of pasta, jeez. Sapim makes good spokes, it probably has more to do with some lame allegiance to DT that I see way to much of these days.|
|To each their own....||koala|
Dec 5, 2001 1:08 PM
|Its a big world. I wouldnt build something that would not last either. You have to respect that. If someone doesnt come back because I give him good advise, so be it.|
Dec 6, 2001 8:09 AM
|I'm not saying that you have to bend to your builder's whim. But I respect the builder for saying: I don't think those spokes are all that, and if you want a wheel built with them, take your business elsewhere. I do have respect for people who are willing to lose business to keep their (percieved) mechanical integrity intact.|
|I understand what you're saying ...||pmf1|
Dec 6, 2001 12:37 PM
|I just get so sick of what passes for customer service these days. Yeah, maybe I'm being a grumpy f@rt, but I I hate not being treated like a customer. I go into a store and have to wait for the clerk to get done talking on the phone to ring my stuff up, or get some waiter who thinks he's doing me a favor by bringing me some food despite my water glass being empty, or have some 16 year old twerp at a LBS say "yeah, we're a campy shop ... I guess Shimano works". If I'm spending the money, my preferenc3es ought not to be questioned. |
So if a bike shop mechanic were to strongly advise against a certian spoke, I'd probably listen to him. But if its what I wanted, I think I should be able to ask for it. How would you feel if a clerk wouldn't sell you a tie you wanted because, in his opinion, it didn't go with your suit?
|i tend to like mechanics that are single minded..||53 x 18|
Dec 5, 2001 5:20 PM
|let me start by saying i have no idea what sapim's are like. ive heard good and bad and had i the $$$'s i would try them to see myself.
but when a mechanic unequivocaly refuses to use a certain product then that always makes me look deeper and try to understand their logic. integrity goes along way and with wheel building it matter's. i favor greasy old school burly knuckled mechaincs who still swear that super record is the pinnacle of compenet design even tho i ride modern stuff and they wince whenever i walk in the door with all my techno-wizardry. i feel this keeps a balance.
i suppose thats enough red herrings for one shot
Dec 6, 2001 6:21 AM
|Right or wrong spoke issues aside, integrity is a fine thing. He's apparently willing to risk losing customers over this matter - I like that. |
|Campagnolo spokes are made by SAPIM!! nm||gimondi|
Dec 5, 2001 5:58 PM
Dec 5, 2001 6:22 PM
|I swear by Sapims and have been building wheels since 1985.
In addition, I am a big guy (6'7" 230) and never break these babies.
I say build them yourself. It is not that hard and very satisfying.
|yup. build your own. nm||gtx|
Dec 6, 2001 11:06 AM
Dec 6, 2001 11:59 AM
|You aren't going to convince him of much (other than you're a pain). Money may sway him, most liely not, but why pay extra when someone else will do it for normal cost. Most likely he's highly principled and would rather have you go away than risk his integrity or be proven wrong. Essentially you're trying to "piss up a rope" - and it'll get you nowhere. Sounds like it's a matter of his way or the highway. When crafts people lock onto something that they feel is the best, right or wrong, they will not usually compromise. Maybe he doesn't like the color of the box - who knows. If he needed or wanted your business he'd do it. |
What's wrong with the spokes he wants to use? Otherwise buy the rim from him and move on.
|lol--hey, box color is important nm||gtx|
Dec 6, 2001 1:32 PM