|What I can not get about gruppos....||Pedalissimo|
Oct 10, 2001 6:06 AM
|is why anyone would use Shimano, when you have have the beautiful, scerene, senseous, crafted, luscious, fabulousness in ergonomics that is Campagnolo. Simple as that.|
|re: What I can not get about gruppos....||cyclequip|
Oct 10, 2001 6:16 AM
|Probably because they used Campagnolo at some stage in the past and actually progressed beyond idolatry and adulation into use. Then they discovered the truth.|
|Aaah, Lotus my son...||muncher|
Oct 10, 2001 6:18 AM
|What is this truth of which you speak?|
|The truth is simple...||cyclequip|
Oct 11, 2001 3:15 AM
|Six of one, my friend! And, supposedly, it's not the ship on the trip but the motion of the ocean..... !|
|Obvious Answer||Rekord Breaker|
Oct 10, 2001 8:49 AM
|There is no reason. Campagnolo is sublime. There can be no other reason. It is the quintessence of form and function, combined in a beautiful synergy. It is the apex, the nadir, the distillation of the cycling ethic. The thumb lever, the "click" of the freewheel, to ride Record is no know the summit of cycling.
It also makes you for more of a patriot, rather than siding with enemy and giving all that money to the Middle East. The Europeans support us, we should support them.
Oct 10, 2001 9:20 AM
|"It also makes you for more of a patriot, rather than siding with enemy and giving all that money to the Middle East."
Thanks for educating us! I had no idea that the Japanese were in league with the "middle east" whatever you mean by that.
As if everyone in the middle east is a terrorist, "the enemy"?!?!?!
I'm not trying to bash, but let's be a little more thoughtful about what we say here.
|Middle East, Far East.||bill|
Oct 10, 2001 10:45 AM
|"When the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor . . . " |
|LOL (nm)||Indiana Rider|
Oct 10, 2001 11:08 AM
|Middle East, Far East.||Slow Ned|
Oct 10, 2001 5:15 PM
This is one of the funniest replies ever to grace the site.
Keep up the good work. RBR.com is lucky to have you.
And remember, in the immortal words of Dean Wormer:
"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son".
|Heh, heh, heh....||grzy|
Oct 11, 2001 3:18 PM
|Over 20 years later and I still nearly wet my pants when I see Animal House. I was a freshman rushing a fraternity house and in ROTC in a state with the drinking age at 18 when that movie came out. John Belushi had a brilliant comic mind. I miss that guy.|
|what a dumb@$$||Rusty McNasty|
Oct 11, 2001 8:11 AM
|Hey, bozo! Did you sleep through your entire geography course in high school? Or did you drop out in the 6th grade to live in the woods?|
Oct 10, 2001 1:15 PM
|What you seem to be saying is that you like their shifters since this is the only part of the bike that comes in contact with your body. Maybe you like the way the pedals operate. The rest of the stuff isn't about ergonomics. |
If it were up to Campy we'd still be using down tube shifting and paying even more for it. Bottom brackets would still be square taper with all of the problems that go with that. Crank bolts wouldn't be self extracting. Crank arms wouldn't be hollow. Headsets wouldn't be sealed. It's also doubtfull if Campy would have ever developed a 10 speed system - seeing how they followed on the other increases. The dual pivot side pull brake wouldn't exist. We'd still be riding a 42/52 chainring setup. Mountain biking as we know it wouldn't exist - remember Campy's effort?
Ultimately competition is good and it keeps the technology coming. Nothing really wrong with Campy or you having an opinion on the ultimate components. I guess this means you're going to put a deposit down for a set of Campy carbon cranks - how could you not? The Italians were caught napping for a while and Campy was on the ropes - thankfully they're back and keeping Big S on their toes.
Personally I prefer the STI over the Ergo shifting.
|Is this flamebait or what? (nm)||Chris Zeller|
Oct 10, 2001 1:35 PM
|posts like this give Campy owners a bad name||DaveG|
Oct 10, 2001 3:27 PM
|yes, I ride Campy, but thats because I like the levers better not because of some inherent superiority. I'd like to think there's room in the world for (at least) two component manufacters. Good flame chum though.|
|I knew there were......||I Love Shimano|
Oct 10, 2001 7:29 PM
|....Campy owners who owned Campy for its social impact.
Pal, you've made a somewhat good (hey, I love shimano!)decision, for mostly wrong reasons.
IMHO, Shimano is beautiful, serene, senseous, crafted, luscious, and fabulous in ergonomics. Simple as that.
|what does mental masturbation have to do with components???||dupe|
Oct 10, 2001 9:23 PM
|ride your bikes and get on with it!
maybe we can ask someone in charge of these forums to create a new section titled "im smarter than you" or "ive got no other life".
personally i cant wait for a forum titled "my penis is bigger than yours" so all those wishing to pontificate about maximum top speeds, how many double centuries they claim to do, how they ride a 55 x 12 into a headwind, the importance of titanium bottle cage holders, etc etc etc.
i ride campy and shimano and as far as im concerned vive le differance. i wish for a world when there was suntour, shimano, sugno, campy, galli, mavic, zuess, ofmego, modolo and the list goes on.
seen more dawns than farmers.
Oct 11, 2001 3:26 PM
|Hey, half of this component talk is just mental masturbation - people like it that way. Yeah it's messy, but ultimately they're satisfied and there's no rejection. I kinda prefer real life actual component issues. By saying "go ride your bike" then going into a disertation on components makes one think that your part of the circle jerk. You woulda had more impact and credibiltiy if you'd just left it at "go ride. A fairly large chunk of the whole www.thang is just tossing off. It's always more interesting when we use it to actually get something done or learn something.|
|grzy, i agree but.....||dupe|
Oct 11, 2001 11:50 PM
|on the whole, i am genuinely enthused by most of those that respond and contribute here, with yourself being a notable plus because if anything you are concise and factual and offer balanced comment. the few here like you have opened a lot of eyes and opinions including mine because you will call it as you see it not what is fashionable.
but how many things have we learned by being esoteric about one component manufacturer rather than the other with statements that are fruitless and vain.
relate your experiences by all means and be impassioned because cycling is a wonderfull thing. but lets keep things in perspective as neither campy or shimano are perfect and perhaps what i couldnt articulate in my "disertation" was that i felt that only two big component manufacturers is a downside for cycling in general.
i enjoy all sorts of bikes and bits and fiddling with them but above all a nice morning, and in the right pace, and feeling the harmony of my energy thru the machinery i sit atop of. i could get this feeling on a bike not talking about it.
i appreciate your time.
|May as well start the ford/chevy debate||matt|
Oct 11, 2001 12:00 AM
|If you give both componet groups a chance, you will find it is a combination of muscles in you legs and ass that make the difference. I hope nobody here thinks that Campy's new carbon cranks are going to help them win the Giro. If American's didn't have such a fetish for carbon, I doubt Campy would ever have made them. Do yourself a favor and plunk that $700 into your mortgage and get some use out of it. I have ridden both Dura Ace and Record groupos since 1985. I have upgraded with their new technology through the years, and it boils down to personal taste and ergonomics which is better. I think the Dura Ace STI levers accomodate bigger hands better than record, so that is what I am using now. Campy also gets a black eye from me for styling. Rember back if you will to the days of Super Record and Nouvo Record. The parts then TRUELY did have style. Etched bolts and engraved parts. Now they put a little decal on the parts just like shimano. You could even get a groupo engraved and hand painted in you favorite frame manufacturers logo. I had the Guerciotti Super Record Grouppo on my Columbus SLX frame. The only other big swaying factor for me is if I break something before a race, I can go to just about any shop in any city and get shimano compatable parts...try finding a chain...no better yet even a chain tool to repair/replace a broken campy chain the day before a race in Rustin, LA.|
|Have not view on the parts but...||muncher|
Oct 11, 2001 1:26 AM
|I have campy on my CX and Shim on my road, so no axe to grind. Does seem to me that you are rather blaming Campy for some kind of disruption in fair market forces over there (me being in the UK)? I'd be willing to bet that it's not Campy that are trying to stop their parts being widely distributed? Food for thought perhaps?
Actually, I don't have Campys carbon cranks, and I have never won the Tour either - the conclusion in obvious :-)
|Wish their distrobution was greater here but it's not||matt|
Oct 11, 2001 6:26 PM
|A big problem in American bicycle consumerism is the importers from Europe we have here. I work part time for a shop, so I get to see the cost break downs and who parts come from. VeltechSports is the biggest problem we have in America today with pricing. They are the importers of SIDI, Colnago, Look, and other various big brands. They set the minimum prices bike shops can sell particular brands. The obvious is SIDI. I bought a pair of SIDI Energy shoes from Total Cycling for cheaper than the shop I work for can get them from Veltech. I am looking at buying a new LOOK KG 281/381 next month, and I can get it delivered to my door from Sdeal.com $300 below wholesale cost to my shop. It doesn't cost that much to import bikes, and Veltech is squeezing quality out of this country. As for Campy...I know their distrobution here is weak, but that is due again to their importer. Shops don't want to make the minimum purchases to get a line of parts that 3% or their customers would consider buying. That turns Campy into a "I'll be different and run the Italian stuff to set myself above others" line of parts. Typically, these are the people who show up to a race in their Range Rover, don their pro team kit, and finish off their double latte before the race starts. People tend to buy bikes complete here, and most bike lines carried in large quantities in the US(cannondale, shcwinn, GT, trek, gary fischer, Fuji) come specd with shimano parts. That makes LBS owners tend to stock shimano replacements. Nine times out of ten they only get the top end Campy specd bikes by special order only. I am sure I offended people with this post, that was not my intention. I just get so worked up when I get on the whole Veltech sports trip. I started out racing as a junior, and know how expensive it is to get started in this sport. Companies like Veltech provide for the rich and hard working, not the up and coming highschool student. How are we supposed to take Iowa Jim or Montana Bob and turn out champions when they can play baseball or football for less than $100. Where will our next champions come from??|
|nice insight - word up!!!!||dupe|
Oct 11, 2001 11:54 PM
|re: What I can not get about gruppos....||mackgoo|
Oct 11, 2001 2:12 AM
|Some like the Light and then they,,,, like the Darkness.|
|re: What I can not get about gruppos....||morey|
Oct 12, 2001 12:06 PM
|Money, Money. Also, the Italian companies cannot spell!!!!|
|re: What I can not get about gruppos....||Eddy|
Oct 12, 2001 5:04 PM
|re: What I can not get about gruppos....||Leisure|
Oct 14, 2001 3:15 AM
|Poor, poor Toyota. After eight years of toiling in the compact sport segment they finally produced a Celica that could almost keep up with the Integra Type-R. And what a lusty machine it is! Fast and furious, point-n-shoot handling, and an engine that revs like, well, a GS-R, but with an odd power lapse where there should be an instant adrenaline rush. For six whole months they looked like they were back in the game, and poof! Here's the new Integra, the RSX (lame name), and just like that the Celica has become another drab attempt at greatness. Poor, poor Toyota. Oh, wait, that was for another site.
Now I've had some negative things to say about Shimano, and they've all been based around first-hand experience. But hey, they have done some great things for the market; they've pushed the limits of quality shifting, braking technology, and splines. As someone else above said, competition is good. My Daytona grouppo would not be as good as it is without Shimano.
I do happen to think Shimano sells more because it comes as original equipment (thus creating more exposure). It sells by virtue of marketing independant of the actual performance. I think that makes them comfortable being complacent and banking on customers being willing (or forced because of funds and compatibility) to shell out silly amounts of money replacing both shifters when a nick in one of the plastic hoods leads to catastrophic failure; this when the competition is willing to replace the one part of the one side. And they feel comfortable making things as fragile as they can get away with. I'm dealing with this issue right now on my XTR shifters and XT cassette and it sucks. They are the only two items on my mtb that are Shimano; they are also the only two that have broken. They are the most recent in a long list of disappointments with their products, though not quite everything that I have purchased from them has been that bad. Companies go through spells like this; hopefully they'll turn around and start living up to the high image they've made (deservedly) for themselves.
|this is a Campy/Shimano thread in disguise (nm)||ColnagoFE|
Oct 15, 2001 10:04 AM
|re: What I can not get about gruppos....||Speedy Donderbal|
Oct 17, 2001 12:41 AM
|You like Campagnolo, how nice for you. I like my shimano, that is nice for me. Leave it at that, try not to make a problem out of nothing.|| |