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Rapid Rise on a road bike....(12 posts)

Rapid Rise on a road bike....Little Pooter
Oct 9, 2001 8:20 AM
Ok, don't laugh, I am a MTB racer that absolutely loves Rapid-rise shifting. I think it is more intuitive and allows up-shifts(bigger cogs)while braking much easier than standard shifting. I have it on both my MTB's. I just purchased a 2001 Giant OCR 1 and find that although the shifting is great, I keep hitting the wrong paddle for my shifts. I miss the rapid-rise.
Has anyone tried a Rapid-rise derailler on a road bike? Does an XTR derailler work on a 9spd 105 group? Any opinions welcome.
Thanks.
re: Rapid Rise on a road bike....grzy
Oct 9, 2001 8:46 AM
It should work, but not sure how well. I know traditional XTR rear der works fine so it seems that rapid rise should work. You may get messed up with the slight "overshift" that a nromal shifting system uses.

It's pretty amazing as to what we get used to and prefer. Never liked Rapid Fire (i.e. Rapid Failure), got totally bassackwards with Rapid Rise and finally settled on Grip Shift (i.e. Grip Sh!te) for the MTB. To me there is nothing faster, intuitive or more precise than the new 9.0SL system. You can blow through the entire stack of gears in the blink of an eye. On the road bike the STI made perfect sense to me since I was used to it. I also have many many years of regular down tube friction shifters which is what I think throws me on Rapid Rise. I am just too used to increasing tension to shift the back.
cage lengthRusty McNasty
Oct 10, 2001 4:35 AM
most road bikes use either a short or a medium cage derailleur, due to the fact that road gear clusters tend to be closer than ATB gears. If you put an ATB long-cage derailleur, meant to handle a 32 or 34 tooth cog on a roadbike with only a 25 tooth, you have a LOT more cage than you need. It is sitting farther from the cogs, and will therefore be less precise.
I suppose that it is possible to rebuild an ATB derailleur, and put a short cage on it. Why, I can't imagine. Try a Campy ergopower setup-you'll like it better.
Nopegrzy
Oct 10, 2001 1:23 PM
Cage length determines the range that the chain can accomodate of the various gearing combinations. The position of the pulley closest to the cogs is controlled by the "B Screw" and can be dialed in for a whole slew of cog sizes. Ultimately the limting factor on a rear der. is how large a cog can be accomodated by the B-Screw, not cage length. To say that a longer cage reaer der. is going to be less precise is totally false.

You really missed the whole point of his posting - he likes the Rapid Rise of the XTR setup - and that's the ONLY way he's going to get it. He just wants to know if it will work on a road bike and he's not interesed in other setups. Realize that there are many road bikes out there running long cage der.s (Ultegra, XT and XTR) and they all work just fine.
Thanks Grzy, you are right...Little Pooter
Oct 11, 2001 5:24 AM
I am not looking for an alternative to Shimano shifting. The bike shifts beautifully (especially for the price) but I really didn't think that my "Rapid-rise programmed brain" would create shifting difficulties with the Dual levers on the 105. I thought the different orientation of the levers would break me away from the XTR paddles I've become used to. But I still associate the small (release paddle) with easier gears. The XTR der that I have (I've stock-piled a few Rapid-rise der's in case they stop making them) has the pulley on the back for smoother shifting and the cage profile (length) is nearly identical to the 105 triple cage. So basically, as long as the cog spacing is the same, I'm good to go and I'll give it a try.
Thanks
Let us know how it works out! (nm)grzy
Oct 11, 2001 8:45 AM
I tried it and love it...Little Pooter
Oct 15, 2001 5:10 PM
Well, I installed a long-cage XTR rapid rise on my 105 Triple, and it works flawlessly. Shifting performance is spot-on perfect and my brain is now happy. Right away, I felt the shifts click off easier, without having to consiously think about it. Approaching corners, it's very easy to click into larger cogs with my right ring finger while dragging the rear brake for the corner and exiting the corner in the right cog to accelerate away. Doing this with the standard derailler required me to move the brake lever sideways for the shift while trying to modulate the braking at the same time... I found this difficult. Also, the shifting effort is reduced because the XTR that I used has that "rollamagig" type roller on the back which reduces cable friction. I will definitely continue to use the rapid-rise on all my bikes. Until you invest some time to learn it, you will never understand the benefits of it. Simply test riding it will not do it, you have to commit to it and give it a chance. Its too bad more people haven't tried it.
Kewlgrzy
Oct 16, 2001 4:03 PM
I kind thought it should work. Glad to have some data!

I know what you mean about "getting everything right with your brain" - but I'm on the other extreme. The Rapid Rise setup just messes with me (big time) and I think that the latest SRAM 9.0SL is the hottest thing since sliced bread. Too me conventional stuff makes sense b/c increasing tension/shortening a cable puts you into a physically larger gear - front and back. This makes sense to me. Rapid Rise a violation of logic in my world.
Although Campy is like that...ColnagoFE
Oct 15, 2001 10:08 AM
Is intuitively the same as Rapid rise...It doesn't really work like the Shimano stuff which messes me up when I ride Shimano road stuff.
re: Rapid Rise on a road bike....David Feldman
Oct 13, 2001 9:44 AM
Get into vintage bikes. Simplex, Huret, Benelux and others did RapidRise from the 1930's to early 60's. The Simplex 543 was considered the ultimate and it's a good derailleur--as long as 5 gears with a maximum range of 13 to 22 teeth are enough!
how about Campy?ColnagoFE
Oct 15, 2001 10:06 AM
Works about the same as rapid rise.
Negativegrzy
Oct 15, 2001 2:27 PM
Rapid Rise with respect to XTR means that the spring inthe derailleur is pushing the cage towards the LARGE sprocket - not the SMALL one. It's fundamentally a 180 shift from how normal Shimano and Campy stuff works. You have to increase cable tension to move it to smaller cogs. Take a closer look and you'll see that it's not "about the same".