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Campy C10 chain: permalink problem(12 posts)

Campy C10 chain: permalink problemShylock
Sep 15, 2001 3:31 PM
Well, I thought it was my bottom bracket that was causing my cadence to go "kerchunk" every other pedal stroke. So I took the cranks off and checked the bb: garbage! So I sent it back to Campy and they warranteed it, God love em.

but alas, it was not to be. The "kerchunk" remains. And after a long detailed inspection, I found that my 2 permalinks (I have two, due to a chainlength installation error when I was having my frame built up) are the more likely culprits. when I wiggle them side to side, they feel very loose and make a slight pop -- as if they could come apart if I wanted them to.

Now, they were installed with a miny c clamp instead of the requisite permalink tool. I realize many have installed their permalinks this way rather than buy the 60 dollar tool, BUUut....Is this the problem? Can I fix it without getting new permalinks or (gasp!) a new chain?
I'd try connect too connect them sans permalinks as others have done, but I have no addtiional links in my possession to ensure proper chain length.

any suggestions or insights appreciated
re: Campy C10 chain: permalink problemmackgoo
Sep 15, 2001 5:37 PM
Go to www.branfordbike.com Check out the 10sp chain links. They work excellent.
Actually...Cliff Oates
Sep 15, 2001 11:02 PM
a recent thread ("campy 10 system chain" - 8/24/01) in rec.bicycles.tech indicate that the Craig (now apparently Forster -- company name change) 10 speed superlinks work fairly poorly. I believe (but could be wrong) they are not currently available due to some production problems. A gold SRAM 9 speed powerlink is preferred over the Craig/Forster 10 speed superlink.
A c9 powerlink? really?Shylock
Sep 16, 2001 12:10 AM
I reallize the superlink is unavailable til november. Guess it's not what they said it would be.


c9 really works? no hangups?
A c9 powerlink? really?Ken
Sep 16, 2001 7:42 AM
I use the SRAM 9 speed gold powerlink on my Campy 10 speed chain. Works flawlessly.
So far...Cliff Oates
Sep 16, 2001 8:39 AM
So good.

It was time for a new chain, so I just finished installing one using a gold SRAM 9s powerlink instead of the permalink. At this point, adjusting the drivetrain in the workstand, I can't tell it's there. I'll be going for an inaugural spin later this morning and will followup with any problems if they occur. I don't expect any though as I have not heard anyone actually using this approach complain about problems.

Cliff
Actually...mackgoo
Sep 16, 2001 8:47 AM
I've been using the Fosters link only for a couple of 100 miles so far. No problems. When I clean my chain I undo the link take the chain off wipe it down lube it and put it back on. Oh and it takes about 5 minutes.
Actually...mackgoo
Sep 16, 2001 9:17 AM
Actualy this is sereous, the last thing I want is the chain to fail while up on a climb and shifting. I have had good results thus far but with not much of a real track record. Cliff what was that link?
HereCliff Oates
Sep 16, 2001 10:57 AM
Here's a link to the thread on Google: click here. Check the responses from Peter Chisholm. He's a bike shop owner in Boulder and the r.b.tech Campy expert (along with Al Muzi).

FWIW, the SRAM powerlink worked fine on the road this morning, and the new chain solved my shifting problems.
toss the chain, get the tool...C-40
Sep 16, 2001 4:52 AM
Get rid of the chain before it breaks. Sounds like the result of amateur mechanics at work (you?). Either buy or borrow the campy chain tool to install the permalink, otherwise don't expect it to work properly. The campy instructions say that two permalinks on a chain should be placed as far apart as possible. If a second permalink was used to correct a chain length error, the links must be very close together. You can't correct a chain that is too short and follows campy's advice.

You've wasted almost enough money between the cost of a chain and a second permalink to have paid for the campy tool. Tough lesson that being cheap is sometimes expensive. If the chain breaks and goes into your spokes, think about what that will cost.

I've ridden over 3000 miles on each of my early model 10 speed chains, with no problems at all. The permalinks were installed with the campy tool, exactly as directed in campy enclosed instruction sheet. Some people don't even read campy's instructions with the chain tool, and think that both pins should be installed at the same time. The pins must be installed one at a time, to insure proper seating.
It was a "professional" job....Shylock
Sep 16, 2001 8:39 AM
...by a mechanic who is generally very reputable. I'm annoyed....no, I 'm REALLY annoyed. Thanks for the input everyone.
re: Campy C10 chain: permalink problemHGS
Sep 16, 2001 7:01 AM
There have been dozens of postings about the permalink problem. Even using the Campy tool, installation is not a no brainer.

When my LBS installed my permalink, the chain had a constant problem with a click. After determining the link was "faulty", I put a new one in its place.

I used a vise grip with two nickels, and was surprised at the amount of force necessary to install each pin.

On installation, an audible and palpable pop is heard, indicating adequate seating of each pin. I asked my LBS about the installation they did, and they commented that they simply apply pressure until the link appears seated. They said they do not get the obvious "pop" on seating that I felt.

On purchasing a new chain one year later, installation was identical. A fairly large amount of pressure on the grips to seat the link, and a loud pop on final pin seating.

Since I have done my own chain installations, I have never had a problem with the chain.

I suspect many mid/high end shops do not install enough permalinks to make them aware of the potential problems from poor installation.