|Request to Grzy mnky||Cleats|
Aug 18, 2001 7:52 AM
|You embarass yourself. Just go away|
Aug 18, 2001 8:45 AM
|I have never directly asked grz a question but have read a lot of his responces to questions and he seems to be a great resource of info for this board. There are a few "Old School" guys on this board who seem to know the anwser to everything i.e. Doug S., Grez etc. and most of us are glad that they are here. So......... dude........ should you decide that they are full of something take it with a grain of salt or don't read their posts.|
Aug 18, 2001 1:52 PM
|I agree with cleats. grzy mnky attacks and insults too many and too often. Just look at some of his posts below. He should be booted. "great source of info" or not, he still is a hateful person and violates the pact often.
I judge a man by more than just what he knows.
Aug 18, 2001 2:13 PM
|"A hateful person"? That's quite grand slander after a meeting in a place as fleeting, impersonal and ephemeral as a web messageboard. Poor GM does seem to have had quite a bashing lately, though I doubt he minds too much... we live after all in the age of celebrity. On his behalf, I'd say he writes a lot of sense mostly and may be trusted. Also anybody who beats the drum of myth-bashing in a place as mythological as bicycling may be excused a degree of curmudgeonliness, to my mind.
Your solemn cry of Homer Faber - 'I judge a man...' - really would be helped by some sort of drumroll, by the way: perhaps you could post a url to Strauss or similar.
|you guessed it!||ak|
Aug 25, 2001 10:57 PM
|First: After leaving my government job two weeks ago I lost a lot of free-time and have had little chance to contribute to this board. I also didn't get to go out like I wanted, so I guess here's my chance.
Now to get back to the topic at hand: You and Cleats are the coolest guys on this board, hands down. if you two don't apreciate the knowledge and wit that grzy mnky adds to this board and want him gone then you've definitely got my vote. I want to be a winner just like you two.
|Poor Doug he has been branded "Old School" :-) (nm)||Bruno S|
Aug 19, 2001 7:22 PM
|re: Request to Cleats||mike mcmahon|
Aug 18, 2001 9:33 AM
|Once you start making some posts of substance and gain a reputation as someone who is knowledgeable and/or civil, people may take your requests seriously. As the matter stands, you're only embarassing yourself with this request, IMHO.|
|re: Request to Cleats||Cleats|
Aug 18, 2001 2:05 PM
|All right then: You can disappear again.||mike mcmahon|
Aug 18, 2001 2:21 PM
|All right then: You can disappear again.||Gorky Park|
Aug 18, 2001 3:50 PM
|You all sound like a bunch of egocentric toddlers the way you easily dismiss the opinions of others. BURP!|
Aug 19, 2001 7:37 AM
|OK, Mike, I'm a fairly long-time contributor to this board, and I'm certainly a long-time cyclist, having ridden in both Europe and the USA during four different decades, and lived through several generations of componentry and hardware approaches.
My opinion, FWIW, is that the board is as close to open season as you can get. Nobody said it's supposed to be a nice, warm place, and some people can be downright inhospitable to newbies and freds. I don't like it when that happens, and I don't act that way, but I don't make the rules, and no one's asked me to.
On the other hand, any community is judged by its members, and by what the majority "permits" the minority to do. I, for one, think that it's important to promote road cycling actively, as it's a dying activity by anyone's standard. Yet when someone wants to "join the club," we often make it like joining a college fraternity...you have to go through hazing and be sufficiently secure.
I agree with you that Grzy frequently contributes valuable insights and knowledge. I also agree with others that he is frequently unpleasant to be around (in a cyber kind of way). So what do communities do in circumstances like this? They generally "nudge" people back into acceptable standards of behavior.
I don't want Grzy to go away, either. But I'm sure as hell not going to just be quiet and pretend that I like it when someone's obnoxious.
|My take||mike mcmahon|
Aug 19, 2001 8:43 AM
|I agree with just about everything you say. I have no problem with people venting their spleens when it comes to GM's sometimes caustic posts. I've done it myself. My problem was with someone who doesn't contribute to this forum suggesting that a long-time contributor leave the board. Wish I could type some more, but I've got some stuff to take care of. Add it to the continuing dialog on civility. Thanks for your input.|
|Explain. How is he obnoxious?||9WorCP|
Aug 19, 2001 3:19 PM
|I'm wondering. I find the irascible, opinionated posts entertaining and informative. What is it exactly, this problem you have with this guy? Cut and paste (we all know how to do this)and show us how out of hand Grz is. I don't see it. Fish or cut bait.|
|embarrass has two "r"s||club|
Aug 19, 2001 6:04 AM
|now who's embarrassed?|
|My what a stir I've created||grzy mnky|
Aug 20, 2001 8:39 AM
|em-bar-rass: To cause to feel self-conscious or ill at ease; disconcert. |
Now to embarrass myself wouldn't I have to feel it? I mean I'd have to know for it to exist, wouldn't it?
I kind of enjoy it here and contrary to popluar belief my objective is not to stir the pot or make myself feel better, but rather exchange useful information and opinions. I can't stand bum dope. Most of my stuff has some sort of basis and I try to provide it. Other times it's just a matter of asthetics. It's interesting to note the amount of interpertaion and distortion that can be picked up.
Kinda funny that my "less than senstive style" offends some yet the random abuse thrown at groups can go unchecked (gays, women, various non-anglo races). I never bring this stuff up and try to knock it down when it appears.
|My what a stir I've created||An honest roadie|
Aug 21, 2001 5:15 AM
|I know you find yourself and this all to be quite amusing. And that's fine. But you should know that you are a huge turn-off to many. There have already been those that have considered quiting this board because of you. If that pleases you, then you have succeeded. But overall it is a loss for this board.|
|Appreciate Your Comments||grzy mnky|
Aug 21, 2001 9:23 AM
|I understand your feedback and appreciate it. However, based on what you wrote in response, I don't think you believe what I wrote or you don't think I'm sincere. Not to mock you, but isn't this a bit of a guilt trip? GM being responsible for everyone leaving RBR and the quality of discourse headed for the sewer - am I really that influential? I think not. My actaul objective is try and raise or at least maintain the quality of discourse on this board. Why don't people find the unjustified attacks on various sub-groups to be offensive. Calling me a queer isn't very bothersome to me, but I think it's much worse on others. We can't begin to know or understand everyone's situation or beliefs - the best we can do is to accept them even if we don't agree with them. Ultimately we're talking bikes here and outside of this group of interlopres it doesn't really matter that much to the outside world. |
I fully appreciate that we're not all going to agree with each other 100% of the time. People are going to come and go for various reasons, but it's not my objective to be one of those reasons, nor do I need to abuse others to feel good. Ultimately I have a fair amount of energy an zeal and as passionate about riding as anyone else, maybe significantly more than average. When people ask for *opinions* they want to know what others think, but sometimes they really just want confirmation of their own opinions. I think it's a bit extreme to bail b/c of one person, but ultimately we're all free to do what we want. Keep in mind how many pissing contests I stay out of and that this fractious nature is typical of virtually all spots in cyber space. A major problem is that tone, cynicism and being facitious just doesn't translate well into text. However, if someone tosses out a bunch of rubbish then they should be challenged, sure I could always be more diplomatic, but it's not my nature. It is a two way street so I don't expect that people have to be all PC with me. I've been told repeatedly over the years that my writing style and energy can be over the top and unfortunately this can be devastating to some. I don't do this out of some malicious need to crush another's spirit or bolster mine, but it often gets interperted this way. I'll keep working on my delivery.
|well||Woof the dog|
Aug 21, 2001 8:33 PM
|I think a lot of people misinterpret the meaning of things posted on the Internet. Yes, it is pretty much impossible to know what does the person in heat of discussion mean when responding to something that doesn't make sense to him/her. Maybe that may be read as very rude, offensive, blah blah blah, but I would say that kind of interpretation comes from people who haven't been around here for a while and don't know the characters involved. Me and Grz monkey (I always pronounce his name in my mind as Greezly monkey haha) have been here for a long time and I can "sense" what is implied in his every post....sort of. He does stay away from kid stuff like name calling for the sake of name calling. Moreover, compared with other's messages Grz monkey's posts have substance in them because he knows a lot more than many of us and he uses this knowledge to help someone. Unlike others he doesn't call someone stupid JUST for the heck of it. There are probably good reasons to it and he usually gives them. I know he keeps in mind the subject and not the poster. Its like saying: "You are not stupid, but what you said is stupid." Ahh, its really hard to explain. I wouldn't feel insulted if he called me stupid for something I said, again because I know him better then any other hee-hoe who changes his friggin screen name every second. I say stuff like him all the time, I think. I call people stupid, sick, cry babies, whatever...but it is all meant in a good-hearted manner. And any of you would sense that if you stick around for like a year or two. Understand?
Moreover: I sincerely laugh...yes, I sit on my chair and laugh when someone corrects my spelling. It is absolutely hilarious that a person resorts to picking on spelling (probably because he doesn't know how else he could contribute to the discussion). Its ridiculous.
P.S. This is my take on things.
Woof, the dog.
|Worst thread in history of the board||Dog|
Aug 20, 2001 12:03 PM
|I nominate this thread as the worst in the history of the board (except for good guys, who tried to set things right).
Attacking is bad. Attacking with no substance is worse.
|Worst thread in history of the board||davidl|
Aug 22, 2001 5:05 AM
|hands down. I usually ignore this kind of whining about other posters - it is unseemly for athletes in such a noble sport to whine about sensibilities being bruised - and hope such a thread dies a natural death. I just can't less this pass. Leave GM alone - IMHO we should try to exchange information. Instead of consuming valuable cyberspace with empty crosstalk, I suggest those whose style it is to hit it hard and tell it straight out, do so. Posters who can't take it ought to ignore the thread or move on over to something else - gardening, etc.|| |