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Flipping tires around(25 posts)

Flipping tires aroundjtolleson
Aug 17, 2001 3:16 PM
In a thread below, I repeated what I've seen on tire package enclosures and in Bicycling Mag... don't flip your tire around to reverse rotational direction to "even out" tire wear. It creates a blowout risk.

Another board member (not bold enough to be capable of email) told me this was an "urban legend" (though I wonder why tires come with directional arrows, but anyway...) And I'd love people's thoughts.

My second question is why do people treat people on this board so crappy. I mean, the guy's response (you know who you are) was like thermonuclear, profane, and insulting. What is with that? I'm just an ordinary roadie gal, trying to get and share the information we all desire.

But sometimes this board is just not a pleasant place to be.
re: Flipping tires aroundSkip
Aug 17, 2001 3:49 PM
I have to agree. You try to offer your advice and experience to help another out, civily too, and then get slammed. Whether they're just having a bad day, forgot to take their meds, or were dropped on their heads at birth, there is no need for such vulgarity in a response. Some chalk it up to mis-read sarcasm, but it's obvious when that is not the case. Sorry.
re: Flipping tires aroundLaughing at the greaser monker
Aug 17, 2001 4:42 PM
Flipping tires around around after the tread has worn on 1 side is a great idea if you value your front teeth and major oral surgery at less than about $30-50. Then again, some hockey players have no teeth so they probably don't care. LOL
Live it up!grzy mnky
Aug 17, 2001 5:11 PM
My comment was regarding reversing direction obviously applied to tire that still has life in it and I believe that was the issue. The other thread had the worn on one side bit. Obviously if the tire is worn out you toss it, regardless. Seems that this escaped your comprehension.

Think about all those unfortunate and obviously misguided souls that accidentally put their tire on in the opposite direction when they change a flat. I wonder why the blowout fairy hasn't claimed their pathetic lives and Ralph Nader hasn't become more involved.

Opps, I'm being sarcastic. If you know something for a fact and can back it that's fine. If you heard it from a friend of a friend of a friend or read it on a ceral box then maybe you shouldn't state it is a universal law on the net. If you think you're right, but then find out you're wrong learn to deal with it. If you think you're wrong then find out you're right then go celebrate.

Think about all those unfortunate and obviously misguided souls that accidentally put their tire on in the opposite direction when they change a flat. I wonder why the blowout fairy hasn't claimed their pathetic lives and Ralph Nader hasn't become more involved.

So lemme get this straight it's OK to post a bunch of rubbish with capital letters and exclamation points if you truly believe it, but you've got to use kid gloves if you want to correct someone on something that is obviously false. It's never going to happen unless Miss Manners steps up to moderate. Next people will complain that so and so hits the keys to hard when they type.

Gawd it's a brutal world, but I love it. I'm just soooo misuderstood, sigh.

If you can't stand the heat then stay out of the kitchen.
Live it up!Geasy monkey is a little fag
Aug 17, 2001 5:23 PM
You sound like a puss. The fact you talk trash overan anonymous internet convinces me even more you are a total puss. Take a look down this thread at how many people have gotten into barbs with your sorry ass. Is it a huge internet conspiracy against you retard? no, it's the fact your a gutless little loser who probably wouldn't have the balls to say half the crap you spew in here if you were in the same room with the other posters.

Now go have your mommy tuck you into bed and don't forget your milk, cookies and retainer before going nighty night retard.
I'm Crushed.grzy mnky
Aug 17, 2001 5:49 PM
That's it I'm never going to post here ever again.

Just kidding.

The thing that pisses people like you off is that you don't like my tone or attitude, but it really pisses you off that I'm right most of the time. Some someone got their skirt in a twist - so what?

You gotta stop slamming gay people - it does nothing for your cause and gives away your maturity level. Or are you homophobic - let's talk about your childhood (that would be up to the present).

If you've got something useful to contribute on the subject of tires I'm all ears, like Mr. Perot says.
That was the most factual comment ever posted on this board!Krusty
Aug 18, 2001 7:05 AM
It's true! It's all true. Grsy mnky is a sad sack.
What's your tag?9WorCP
Aug 19, 2001 4:27 PM
I'm checking late Sunday and find a "I hate Grz Mky" festival going on. Who the hell are you you name-calling-coward? I've seen your type before. Keep on lurkin' O Brave and even handed soul.

Can you imagine being such a chicken-sh!t that you can't even post under a consistent handle on the most impersonal of interactions as an internet forum? "Geasy monkey is a little fag" nice handle. Real contributor you are.
Mis-directionKerry Irons
Aug 17, 2001 5:34 PM
The directional arrows on road tires (a relatively rare thing) are so that you mount the tire so the tread interacts with the road "properly." However, most road tires these days have minimal tread, so the effect on handling or traction is likely to be extremely small, if any. As soon as the tire wears some, the effect of tread is even less. If you look at how a tire wears (really only rear tires wear significantly except for the heaviest riders), the rubber of the tread is worn down from the center toward the edges. "Flipping the tire around" won't do anything to change that pattern, so I can't understand how this would "even out the wear." Further, there is nothing in the way tires wear that would increase the risk of a blow out - casing failure - regardless of which way the tire was facing. I don't know what brand/model of tire you're using that says this - I've never heard of such a thing. Perhaps you could enlighten us?

If I had to guess about the comment in Bicycling, they were recommending against putting a worn rear tire on the front - commonly referred to as "rotating" your tires. The reason this is a bad idea is because you want to have your best tire on the front, where traction is the most critical. If you lose traction in back, you can recover - if your front tire breaks loose, you're most likely cooked. However, this certainly has nothing to do with the rare "direction of rotation" issue, which is not really an issue for road tires. And it absolutely has nothing to do with casing failures, which is the cause of a blow out. A blow out on the front is a big deal, so that's another reason not to put worn tires on the front, but blow outs are pretty rare too, unless you're riding where there's lots of tramp metal and sharp stones.
Mis-directionSkip
Aug 17, 2001 8:51 PM
The only "don't", that I've heard regarding rotating tires, had to do with steel belted, radial, car tires. Nothing for bike tires. They (whomever "they" is; the tire dealers/salespeople), said, never to rotate these (steel belted radials) L to R (which would change direction of travel), only front to back; but I don't recall their reasons. Maybe right, maybe wrong, I'm not a tire engineer/designer. My guess, would be, something related to sidewall wear, and not tread.
The Theory...grzy mnky
Aug 20, 2001 8:23 AM
The theory with the steel belted radials was that the layers of steel would lose their bond to each other when the direction of rotation was reversed. This was the long held belief, until about fifteen years ago when studied and it was found that the data didn't support the belief. Since then the tire manufactures said "Gee, I guess it's OK if you reverse the direction of rotation." For bias ply tires the direction of rotation has never been a factor. Bike tires are bias ply design. The only reason for directional markings on tires has to do with assymetrical tread designs - usually oriented towards moving water and improving traction. Dems the facts. One can obviously do whatever they want with them...or not.
The Theory...Skip
Aug 20, 2001 3:45 PM
Thanks GM.
re: Flipping tires aroundJofa
Aug 18, 2001 3:30 AM
One common warning is never to use a very worn tyre on the front wheel. This presupposes that a worn tyre is more likely to flat than a new one, and I've not found this to be the case, in experience or theory. Anything that is going to puncture a tyre isn't going to be much affected by another 2mm of tyre tread. In any case, the vast majority of punctures occur in the rear tyre, because the front tyre perfectly prepares road debris to puncture the rear.

Also, given that it is generally accepted (please? finally?) that tread pattern never has any advantageous effect on grip, and may as well not exist, then the direction issue is irrelevant as well. The popularity of Axial Pro's has helped to dispel the 'tread pattern' myth, as they are slick, but unfortunately they propogate the 'dual tread' and colourful rubber stuff instead. Still, one thing at a time.

The net of all this, is that it's perfectly safe to run tyres on whichever wheel, and whichever way around that you fancy.

Tyre manufacturers all know that a simple carbon black rubber, slick tyre, which rotates in either direction and on either wheel, is the best for all conditions, and the easiest and cheapest to make. The data has been in the public domain for some time showing all this, and they can call on a century's experience with tyres for all sorts of other applications.

They also know that cyclists like to be specialists, who will vouchsafe earnestly and pay apparently endlessly for the value of any spurious 'feature' which the marketing department dreams up, and prints on the sidewall. If the company executives would only listen to their engineers before their marketing dudes, then we would all be a little better off; unfortunately, the bicycle departments at most tyre manufacturers are I suspect rather small and generally left to get on with it- rather like a toddler in a playpen, checked on only intermittently- as the market is tiny, relative to industrial and automobile divisions. The trickle-down effect of knowledge and subsequent efficiency into non-critical departments is a long time coming, and until then we'll have to sift through piles of colourful, multi-treaded, patterned tyres with a litany of pointless instructions down the side... all whimsy, borne of the mind of some bored and imaginative junior designer.
re: Flipping tires aroundjtolleson
Aug 19, 2001 1:11 PM
Based on everyone's reaction, I guess I'll stop worrying about this issue, but you probably still won't see my flip my tire around, having been the victim of a front-tire blowout and spending 30 weeks on crutches over the last three years... that's DEFINITELY another story.
Well, it sounds like the mystery continues. The box I saw it in was for a Specialized Turbo T (I think...) and that was probably on the bike I road in the late 90s. As for the article, I thought the issue was sidewall related. But anyway, so much more passing on info. All it did was get me reamed. Oh, I forgot. That's just me with my "skirt in a knot" because somebody attacked me personally rather than merely disagree on the issues. So glad to see that some roadies are beyond sexist remarks...

For the rest of you thanks. I was spending the last 48 hours contemplating bailing on this board entirely. (ya know, that "heat/kitchen" thing... if I'm not willing to be treated like crap them I'm supposed to leave).
re: Flipping tires aroundJofa
Aug 19, 2001 1:51 PM
Let's not forget that it was yourself who kickstarted this entire issue by imploring other cyclists, in the previous and now notorious thread, never to switch their tyres' direction under penalty of assured devastation. Despite your protestations of impartiality and honest intent, your recommendation was specific and absolute: "No No No", if I remember correctly: the post implied prior experience and superior knowledge, qualities which you've since dispensed reference to in favour of the guise of the 'hurt novice'. GM's response was at least factually correct, if brusque- as is his manner, excusable or not; but sexism is one crime of which I din't find him guilty. I don't recall references to either skirts or knots, although I'm writing from memory here, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

Jofa
re: Flipping tires aroundjtolleson
Aug 19, 2001 4:30 PM
I wouldn't say I kickstarted the issue. I repeated something that I had been told from two different sources in response to someone's suggestion that a tire be "flipped around" to even out tread wear. Often what we all repeat here is wisdom gleaned from sources we consider informed (in my case, tire packaging and Bicycling Mag.). I was met with a personal attack.

PS -- the skirt reference is just a few lines above on this thread, and reads...

"Some someone got their skirt in a twist - so what?"

I guess my being a female gave a nice little additional insult fodder. Sorry to see folks are on the attack again, I said above I'd change my perspective on the issue (isn't that what these exchanges are for) and ultimately that isn't apparently enough for you. What is it you want me to do? My "mea culpa" acceptance of the input of others on the "tire flip" issue is a helluva lot more gracious than anything I've seen from the folks who went on the warpath with opinions on the other side. And until you wake up in intensive care yourself, you may not understand the tire paranoias that follow.

Perhaps I need to re-extend that 48 hr. hiatus.
Out of line.9WorCP
Aug 19, 2001 4:44 PM
"BTW - Drop the skirt unless you want to make an issue out of it - I don't care if you're a hermaphrodite."

That is a cut and paste quote. NO ONE IS MAKING AN ISSUE OUT OF YOU BEING A FEMALE! I think it's fair to ask that you do not take offense where none is given.

You had bad info and Grz is a surly curmudgeonly anarchist. Let's move on.

BTW I hope you keep posting. Please realize this is all harmless interchange at worst. Got that? AT WORST. No blood, no real harm. C'mon JT you've dealt w/ worse than a l'il ol' monkey? Besides he's (?) often entertaining. :)
Out of line.jtolleson
Aug 19, 2001 7:15 PM
No one's making an issue of sex?

I guess it was a mere coincidence that in the previous thread I described myself as "an ordinary roadie gal" and the crack about "skirt in a twist" followed.
You brought it up.9WorCP
Aug 19, 2001 8:05 PM
Who cares what sex you are? I don't. Grz said he didn't. How'd he find out you were a girl anyway? Did you bring it up twice already? He didn't call you skirt in the first post and here you start all over again w/ the "ordinairy gal stuff." (that's my read anyway) "Skirt?" Well not the most respectful or sensitive of terms but hardly an epithet. Hell people are calling others "b#tch," "p#ssy" all the time on this forum which is far more offensive and diminishing yet who's piping up about that? (Me. Only me. Poor, unrecognized 9WorCP. sniff.)

Honestly, JT I realize your just defending yourself and were a little outraged at Grz' brand of wit and repartee, but if you've been posting here for a while then you know this guy. Look at the whole picture. Personally, I think he's more helpful and generous with his knowledge than most. Plus he's not one of those generic posters who sounds like they're trying to audition to be columnist in a men's magazine (you know these guys). He's got a distinct personality and point of view and there you are.

Ah well, maybe he'll apologize to you and we can all be friends again. Call him a pant or a jock strap or something.
9WorCP is really grzy mnkyskinner
Aug 20, 2001 3:50 AM
Look at all the effort he has spent defending grzy mnky.

You are as much of a bore as grzy.

There, that's my "brand of wit and repartee".
Just did a search.9WorCP
Aug 20, 2001 3:58 AM
And it seems about half your posts are attacking Grz in some way or another. So who's the bore? You're just me in reverse. You don't like him that's about all.
Negative. (nm)grzy mnky
Aug 20, 2001 8:07 AM
Negative. (nm)9worCP = Grzy Mky's Lover
Aug 20, 2001 8:30 AM
Butt buddies. :-)
Is that a good thing or a bad thing?grzy mnky
Aug 20, 2001 8:58 AM
Guess it all depends upon your degree of homophobia. You were making disparaging remarks about gays and assuming that we're all male even though it's not true, correct?

You aren't doing much for your cause. Kind of cyber-grafitti as it were.
You oughta see the mountain bike board...cory
Aug 20, 2001 8:14 AM
I spend about half my cycling time in the woods, and I enjoy it at least as much as road riding. But that board's got too much undischarged testosterone for me...