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Rough shifting with Campy(16 posts)

Rough shifting with CampyBeam rider
Aug 8, 2001 5:21 PM
I'm trying to adjust the deraillers on my new used Softride. It's equipped with a brand new Campy Racing Triple drive train and Chorus BB shifters. I just can't get the rear cassette to shift smoothly. The cassette is a Shimano 9 cog and I'm wondering if the cog spacing might be a little out of sync with the Campy indexing.

Does anyone know whether Shimano is compatable with Campy in an application like this? I would expect the shifts to be as smooth as butter when adjusted properly and have been disappointed so far. Is there a way to adjust the shifters themselves?
re: Rough shifting with CampyDaveG
Aug 8, 2001 5:34 PM
Campagnolo 9-speed = 4.55 mm spacing
Shimano 9-speed = 4.34 mm spacing

Buy an Wheels Manufacturing spacer kit (see Branford bike) or another aftermarket cassette designed for this. You might get OK shifting by playing with it a bit but Campy never intended it to work with a Shimano cassette
Go here to solve your Campy/Shimano compatibility woesDaveG
Aug 8, 2001 5:44 PM
Seems like we get a post on this every day. Go here and find out everything you always wanted to know about compatibility:

http://www.branfordbike.com/cassette/cog11.html
Sorry, make that hereDaveG
Aug 8, 2001 5:48 PM
http://www.branfordbike.com/cassette/cog9.html

This is the page that has the 9-speed cassettes. Gets kinda pricey though. Compatibility ain't cheap
re: Rough shifting with Campystopped wanking years ago...
Aug 8, 2001 7:31 PM
Stop wanking around with the shimaNO cassette. Get the real thing and don't waste your time on bogus refits with cheesy washers.
re: Rough shifting with Campy/Shimano mixCliff Oates
Aug 8, 2001 7:45 PM
I would NOT expect the shifts to be as smooth as buttah. The cassette spacing is different enough (0.21mm) to prevent that. I would, however, expect the shifts to improve if you are using a Shimano HG chain. An HG-72 chain at $13 from Excel is worth a shot, and is a darn sight cheaper than a $120 Wheels Mfg. cassette.
Of course it's rough.davidl
Aug 8, 2001 11:23 PM
What you need to do is use a campy cassette and a campy C-9 chain. There is no reason to use a Shimano cassette with racing t and chorus - that's the finest triple set up you can buy. Get the whole thing. You shouldn't be surprised it doesn't work well. Stop screwing around with half-measures. Go with a full campagnolo drive train and enjoy your bike. Good luck.
Thanks for the clarificationBeam rider
Aug 9, 2001 4:40 AM
I guess I should have delved a little deeper into the archives. I didn't realize it was such a common question. Thanks for the responses. The problem I have with "doing it right" revolves around money and how best to distribute it. I noticed the Shimano cassette after my shifting problems could not be adjusted out. Would have saved me hours had I been more observant, but you wouldn't expect to find this cassette installed with all that high end Campy componentry. Just one more example of the eccentricity of the guy who built this bike up, who, by the way, never put 1 mile on the bike before I was fortunate enough to buy it from him for 500.00.

Getting back to the point though, he used Spin 3 spoke carbon wheels and Spin has since gone bankrupt. I assume in order to use a Campy cassette I would have to change the freewheel and I'm not so sure they are available anymore for this wheel. I haven't been able to find one. Additionally if I could locate one it would probably be cost prohibitive.

I will most likely purchase the Wheels cassette but certainly will give the chain swap idea a try first.

Thanks to all.
Thanks for the clarificationCliff Oates
Aug 9, 2001 5:04 AM
To use a Campy cassette, you would almost certainly have to buy new wheels. I put the almost in that sentence because I am not familiar with your wheels, and while I doubt that a freehub body for your hub that is designed for Campy splined cassettes exists, I should never say never. Try the Shimano chain. It should also work well with the Wheels Mfg. cassette, which is constructed of respaced Ultegra cogs.
Take a look.Chen2
Aug 9, 2001 6:14 AM
www.wheelsmfg.com
Take a look.Cliff Oates
Aug 9, 2001 7:19 AM
I was on that site yesterday. Do you have a point that you are not making?

From http://www.wheelsmfg.com/technology.html#accel9: "For Best results, use Campagnolo ergo 9 spd levers and 9 spd derailleur and Rohloff 9 or Dura Ace 9 spd chain." That's pretty much what I recommended, except a D-A chain is probably a bit pricier than is required.

Try the chain first because it's cheap. If the chain doesn't produce a satisfactory result, then cough up the cash for a new cassette. Do you disagree with that recommendation?
CliffChen2
Aug 9, 2001 2:42 PM
No disagreement, just offering the URL. I was just at that site this week, considering changing my wife's bike to Campy. She has an Ultegra triple but would have more usable ratios with a "Racing T" 50-40-30 instead of the Ultegra 52-42-30. She doesn't want to give up her Heliums and there doesn't seem to be a Campy compatible hub for the Heliums. I think the Wheels cassette may be the best solution. Do you have any suggestions?
Actually I meant to attach my post to the original post, not yours, sorry.
3 approaches that I can think ofCliff Oates
Aug 9, 2001 3:53 PM
I can think of three approaches.

First, you could just replace the chainrings. Unfortunately, the replacement rings that come in 40 and 50 tooth sizes don't have shift ramps. I'm not a Shimano guy, but I believe the front derailleur is kind of finicky and might not like not having ramped and pinned rings. On the other hand, the Branford Bike Shop page on Shimano chainrings says the Engagement rings will work OK if you keep the sizes within 10 teeth. At $68 for this solution, it might be worth a shot. Perhaps someone who works on Shimano has an opinion.

Another option would be to replace the Shimano cranks and bottom bracket with the Campy triple and an appropriate bottom bracket and leave everything else as-is. Again, I'm not a Shimano guy. If the front mech was Campy, it would work with Shimano cranks, but Campy's front mech works differently than Shimano's. I don't know how significant the difference is between Shimano's ramps and pins and the Campy equivalent, and the effect this would have on shifting. FWIW, $130 from Branford for new Racing-T cranks and an AC-H bottom bracket.

The last approach is to replace the whole drivetrain and duplicate the situation the original poster was asking about. I have to think that replacing the rings or the cranks will work.
3 approachesChen2
Aug 10, 2001 7:04 AM
Cliff I appreciate your help. I had a bad experience trying to replace the Ultegra Triple rings with aftermarket rings. It seems that no one makes optional rings for Shimano triples (patent infringement?). The Shimano middle 42 ring is ramped to help lift the chain from the 30 up to the 42. The aftermarket rings are designed to work on doubles but not triples. If you look in the Branford site under Shimano Ultegra Triple there is a statement that the rings are matched and should not be mixed with any other rings. After my experience I can believe that. Campy has optional rings for their triple, 52,50,42,40,32,30. I wish Shimano would do that. A 50-40-30 set would be about right for my wife, she has no use for a 52, and I think a lot of other riders could use such a set. We also tried replacing the Ultegra crank set with the Deore XT mountain set but the OCLV bike has a permanent "braze-on" der road mount and the Ultegra der could not be lowered far enough and there was no way to mount a mtn der. I think the old RSX triple with smaller rings was a good alternative for certain applications. Too bad they quit making it. If I switch my wife to Campy I'll change everything and try the Wheels cassette on her Helium wheels. Thanks again, Al
re: Rough shifting with Campybn
Aug 10, 2001 7:54 AM
A softride with a triple? I thought those were weird enough!
Weird SoftrideBeam rider
Aug 10, 2001 3:10 PM
I can't explain why the builder equipped this bike with a triple in light of the fact that we live in Michigan (not a lot of elevation change). however, the price was such that I can live with the extra weight and complexity.

The Softride does seem to march to a different drummer but ride one for two hours and you will have a new appreciation for the design. A smoother ride you will not find. The unorthodox looks notwithstanding, it is a very well built and fast bike.